Change the name of Israel

[Svartalf]

quite agreed on both points, I look forward to Israelis being able to get married without needing a rabbi to to it.

[Forty Two]

quite agreed on both points, I look forward to Israelis being able to get married without needing a rabbi to to it.

Israelis can get married without needing a rabbi to do it. Generally, Christians can marry Christians, and Muslims can marry Muslims, and they don't need rabbis. Interestingly, since Moslems in Israel follow Islamic law for marriages, inter-faith marriages are permitted between Muslim males and Christian or Jewish females, but the opposite is not currently allowed for female Muslims. LOL. Gotta love it. Can we speculate why Muslim males would be free to marry Christian and Jewish chicks, but Muslim females wold not be allowed to marry Christian or Jewish males, under Islamic law? Take a wild fucking guess!

[Svartalf]

they can't do that in Isreal, there is no civil wedding in isreali law, you have to get a religious (1.e. jewish) wedding.

[Hermit]

quite agreed on both points, I look forward to Israelis being able to get married without needing a rabbi to to it.

Israelis can get married without needing a rabbi to do it. Generally, Christians can marry Christians, and Muslims can marry Muslims, and they don't need rabbis. Interestingly, since Moslems in Israel follow Islamic law for marriages, inter-faith marriages are permitted between Muslim males and Christian or Jewish females, but the opposite is not currently allowed for female Muslims. LOL. Gotta love it. Can we speculate why Muslim males would be free to marry Christian and Jewish chicks, but Muslim females wold not be allowed to marry Christian or Jewish males, under Islamic law? Take a wild fucking guess!

Feel free to edit the Wikipedia's page about Marriage in Israel accordingly. It says, incorrectly if you are better informed, that

Marriages in Israel can be performed only under the auspices of the religious community to which couples belong, and no religious intermarriages can be performed legally in Israel.

[Forty Two]

Yes, but you said "rabbi." If a person is Christian, they can get married with a priest or minister. If Muslim, an imam or whatever else they use.

In 2010, Israel passed the Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010,[39] allowing a couple to form a civil union in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion

This is similar to the European practice (eminently civilized and advanced) where people register their religions with the State for "church tax" purposes. Israel has you register, too. If you're both secular or without religious affiliation, then you can get married under the civil union law.

Obviously, that wouldn't fly here in the US, because we in the American theocracy have separation of church and state, and the very notion of registering faith with the government, paying church taxes through State run collection departments, having an "official" religion (as is common in Europe and most of the rest of the world), and barring intermarriage between religions would not be popular here. There are some who would like it, of course - we just have to figure out if they're the advanced, civilized European types who can mix church and state but it doesn't really matter...or, whether it's the overly religious theocratic types who can't.

If I had my 'druthers, of course, the whole religious element of marriage would be divorced from the secular issue, and I'd structure marriage in a way that people basically come up with their own pre-nuptual agreements (or if they choose not to, there would be a standard set-up for what constitutes a marriage). It would have no religious element recognized by law. The US is like that - the churches can officiate services, but the religious element is never required, there can be no prohibition on mixed marriages, and there is no registration of religious faiths, and religious ceremonies are not required for marriage. That's how we do it in our theocracy.

[Forty Two]

they can't do that in Isreal, there is no civil wedding in isreali law, you have to get a religious (1.e. jewish) wedding.

It doesn't have to be Jewish. Muslims don't get married by Rabbis or in jewish weddings. So it's "e.g. Jewish," not "i.e. Jewish."

Also, since 2010 there have been civil unions for secular folks.

[Hermit]

In 2010, Israel passed the Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010,[39] allowing a couple to form a civil union in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion

This is similar to the European practice (eminently civilized and advanced) where people register their religions with the State for "church tax" purposes. Israel has you register, too. If you're both secular or without religious affiliation, then you can get married under the civil union law.

And about 270,000 Israeli couples do not qualify for a civil union precisely because only one partner is secular or without religious affiliation.

Nor is a civil union the same as a marriage. An attempt to legislate the differences out of existence (e.g. concerning alimony and divorce) came before the Knesset in 2015. The Knesset threw the proposal out 50 votes against to 39 for.

[Brian Peacock]

The you go folks. It's official. Criticising Israel is racist - but of course, so it pointing this out, apparently.

Criticising Israel is not necessarily racist.

Advocating the destruction of the world's sole Jewish state, the Middle East's only democracy, by its Arab neighbours, revolting regimes, all of whom persecute and murder women and homosexuals, with the inevitable mass murder of Jews that would follow, is very definitely racist - not to mention, many other -ists also.

Of course, even if the antisemite wet dream happened and Israel was destroyed, this wouldn't end subjugation of the Palestinians. After all, more Palestinians have been killed by other Arabs than by Israel.

My view is that the moral and ethical failings of one party, or even the crimes thereof, are not mitigated, offset, or downgraded by the failings or crimes of another. It matters not one jot who has killed more Palestinians, the point is that those who have done so carry sole responsibility for their acts. As I said, you're portraying having a low opinion of Israel, and in Svarty's case a particularly low opinion, as an act of racial and/or religious hatred - perhaps even one bordering on an act of violence.

[JimC]

Can anyone realistically say that there is even a slender chance of a political solution to the Israeli/Palestinian stalemate?

[Svartalf]

I wish I could, but so long as Israel's politics will be dominated by the far right and religious parties, I don't see any such things happening.

[Hermit]

Can anyone realistically say that there is even a slender chance of a political solution to the Israeli/Palestinian stalemate?

Huh? What with Bibi having been elected for a fifth consecutive term after promising to annex more Palestinian land? And after the passing of the basic law (basic law being the Israeli version of a constitution) which made it clear that Israel is a nation for Jews rather than a nation of Israeli citizen?

[Forty Two]

In 2010, Israel passed the Civil Union Law for Citizens with no Religious Affiliation, 2010,[39] allowing a couple to form a civil union in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion

This is similar to the European practice (eminently civilized and advanced) where people register their religions with the State for "church tax" purposes. Israel has you register, too. If you're both secular or without religious affiliation, then you can get married under the civil union law.

And about 270,000 Israeli couples do not qualify for a civil union precisely because only one partner is secular or without religious affiliation.

Sucky law. Great reason for the separation of church and state.

Nor is a civil union the same as a marriage. An attempt to legislate the differences out of existence (e.g. concerning alimony and divorce) came before the Knesset in 2015. The Knesset threw the proposal out 50 votes against to 39 for.

Again, good reason for the separation of church and state.

Would 'twere the countries in that region would change their practices. In Jordan, for example, "In Jordan there are no civil marriages and all marriages must be performed according to a recognized religious tradition. While Muslim men may marry non-Muslim women, Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim men." https://jo.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-se ... in-jordan/ They don't even allow civil marriages -- all marriages must be religious. No mixing, except Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, cuz, you know - then the non-Muslim woman is very likely to become a Muslim woman.....

So, you see the issue, I'm sure.

[Forty Two]

Can anyone realistically say that there is even a slender chance of a political solution to the Israeli/Palestinian stalemate?

Huh? What with Bibi having been elected for a fifth consecutive term after promising to annex more Palestinian land? And after the passing of the basic law (basic law being the Israeli version of a constitution) which made it clear that Israel is a nation for Jews rather than a nation of Israeli citizen?

We agree that Israel is a nation for Jews, and that shouldn't be. However, when Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc. are all nations for Muslims rather than nations for citizens. Isn't it as much their fault as Israel's?

[Forty Two]

I wish I could, but so long as Israel's politics will be dominated by the far right and religious parties, I don't see any such things happening.

Do the neighboring countries' politics and domination by religious parties enter into it somehow? Or are they dominated by nicey-nice lefties and secular parties?

[Svartalf]

nice strawman, but the inner politics of neighbouring countries are uttlery irrelevanant to the matter at hand.