"Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post Reply
User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 20806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:59 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 am
Absurd. With every advantage they claim the success to be the result of a fundamentally different character. It's easier for Norway to acheive what it has, is this really a controversial statement?
Ah, That sounds a bit different from your initial crap:
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:09 pm
A gated community of ~5 mil people that also happens to be one of the world's leading oil exporters.
Not gated now, nor because Norway happens to be one of the world's leading oil exporters. Now Norway is a capitalist country with strong welfare programs as the result of a fundamentally different character. I agree, that is not at all a controversial statement. It lacks the same explanatory power as your previous rubbish, though, and what does it say about the US's fundamental character as a country and as a people anyway?

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 50914
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:03 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 am
Absurd. With every advantage they claim the success to be the result of a fundamentally different character. It's easier for Norway to acheive what it has, is this really a controversial statement?
The US is a more productive country than Norway when you look at GDP per capita. The US has the means to reduce its income inequality and increase its level of services. The fact that it doesn't compared to Norway has nothing to do with Norway's oil resources.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 20806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:09 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:03 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 am
Absurd. With every advantage they claim the success to be the result of a fundamentally different character. It's easier for Norway to acheive what it has, is this really a controversial statement?
The US is a more productive country than Norway when you look at GDP per capita. The US has the means to reduce its income inequality and increase its level of services. The fact that it doesn't compared to Norway has nothing to do with Norway's oil resources.
I think Sean Hayden has abandoned Norway's oil resources as a reason why it can be a capitalist country with strong welfare programs when I pointed out to him that Norway was a capitalist country with strong welfare programs decades before the first oil and gas wells were drilled.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:36 am

I haven't abandoned anything. Norway's energy industry is responsible for its ability to have such a successful welfare state. That they supported it prior to their additional good luck hardly changes things. It isn't as though they would have faced the same problems as the US before getting even luckier and therefore proving your point.

pErv, our social welfare system is huge, and this is despite the many things we get wrong. If there's a better way to structure it I'm sure Norway can teach us something, but just declaring it possible doesn't amount to much, especially when making comparisons to other countries.
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:59 am

Hermit wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:59 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:41 am
Absurd. With every advantage they claim the success to be the result of a fundamentally different character. It's easier for Norway to acheive what it has, is this really a controversial statement?
Ah, That sounds a bit different from your initial crap:
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:09 pm
A gated community of ~5 mil people that also happens to be one of the world's leading oil exporters.
Not gated now, nor because Norway happens to be one of the world's leading oil exporters. Now Norway is a capitalist country with strong welfare programs as the result of a fundamentally different character. I agree, that is not at all a controversial statement. It lacks the same explanatory power as your previous rubbish, though, and what does it say about the US's fundamental character as a country and as a people anyway?
No, it doesn't sound different, not even a little. Why do smug pricks in gated communities look out and wonder why others can't get their shit together? Or rather, what have they concluded? Why, it's because they lack the character to do it.

I don't believe in fundamentally different characters based on nationality. I think Dutchy's got an all too human mind, same as me, his Dutchness not capable of accounting for much regarding his beliefs and behavior.
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
L'Emmerdeur
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 pm
About me: Yuh wust nightmaya!
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am

I find it hard to disagree with the idea that different countries can and do have a differing overall ethos. 'National character' is just another term to refer to that. The article you find ridiculous cites statistics that show in how Norway and Norwegians differ from the US and Americans.

As for 'gated communities,' Norway has 9.14 refugees in country per 1,000 overall population, while the US has .84 per 1,000 (source). 'How about immigrants per capita?' you may ask. Norway 5.90 per 1,000 compared to the US 3.90 per 1,000 (source). Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by 'gated community' though.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:52 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am
I find it hard to disagree with the idea that different countries can and do have a differing overall ethos. 'National character' is just another term to refer to that. The article you find ridiculous cites statistics that show in how Norway and Norwegians differ from the US and Americans.

As for 'gated communities,' Norway has 9.14 refugees in country per 1,000 overall population, while the US has .84 per 1,000 (source). 'How about immigrants per capita?' you may ask. Norway 5.90 per 1,000 compared to the US 3.90 per 1,000 (source). Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by 'gated community' though.
You're not alone. Most people believe it, and they're wrong too.
The number of refugees resettled in the United States decreased more than in any other country in 2017, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). This represents the first time since the adoption of the 1980 U.S. Refugee Act that the U.S. resettled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.

The U.S. has historically led the world in refugee resettlement. Since 1980, the U.S. has taken in 3 million of the more than 4 million refugees resettled worldwide.
--selfishness gone mad!
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 20806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:55 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:36 am
Norway's energy industry is responsible for its ability to have such a successful welfare state.
Logic fail. Since having such a successful welfare state precedes the discovery of oil and gas reserves by several decades, it cannot be said that its energy industry is responsible for Norway being a capitalist country with strong welfare programs. FFS, actual oil and gas production did not provide net income until the early 1980s because of the large capital investment that was required to establish the country's petroleum industry. Norway's social welfare system began in earnest at the conclusion of WWII, and it ran in tandem with those of other Nordic countries that do not sit on oil resources.. Google "Nordic model".

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:59 am
No, it doesn't sound different, not even a little. Why do smug pricks in gated communities look out and wonder why others can't get their shit together? Or rather, what have they concluded? Why, it's because they lack the character to do it.
Norwegians are not smug pricks in gated communities. I quoted immigration data already. They compare favourably to those of the USA. In case you forgot: In 2017 16.8% of Norway's total population consisted of immigrants. This compares to 14.4% of the total US population being immigrants in 2015, the latest figure I could find. And no, the Norwegian ship owner who lives in Switzerland to avoid paying taxes is not "Norwegians living in gated communities" either.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:59 am

It's not a logic fail. Even the prime minister of Norway credits the energy industry for the success of their welfare state, something they are attempting to correct now.
Last edited by Sean Hayden on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
L'Emmerdeur
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 pm
About me: Yuh wust nightmaya!
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:00 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:52 am
L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am
I find it hard to disagree with the idea that different countries can and do have a differing overall ethos. 'National character' is just another term to refer to that. The article you find ridiculous cites statistics that show in how Norway and Norwegians differ from the US and Americans.

As for 'gated communities,' Norway has 9.14 refugees in country per 1,000 overall population, while the US has .84 per 1,000 (source). 'How about immigrants per capita?' you may ask. Norway 5.90 per 1,000 compared to the US 3.90 per 1,000 (source). Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by 'gated community' though.
You're not alone. Most people believe it, and they're wrong too.
Are you disputing the numbers?
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:52 am
The number of refugees resettled in the United States decreased more than in any other country in 2017, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). This represents the first time since the adoption of the 1980 U.S. Refugee Act that the U.S. resettled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.

The U.S. has historically led the world in refugee resettlement. Since 1980, the U.S. has taken in 3 million of the more than 4 million refugees resettled worldwide.
--selfishness gone mad!
I'm not attempting to dis the US. What I am doing is questioning your characterization of Norway as a 'gated community.' Perhaps if you stated outright the basis for that claim, I'd understand better.

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:06 am

Oh, don't take that bit too seriously! I'm sure they're great people, my other comments about nationality wouldn't be consistent if I thought otherwise!

Nope, I'm just using the gated community bit as a means of conveying a sense of what I see as the flaw in the comparisons. Namely the problem of overlooking influences outside policy that essentially make looking good easy.

Sorry If I offended any Norwegians! :cheers:
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 11737
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:37 am

It goes the other way too. I guess that's obvious. But we still make the mistake of overlooking influences that make it easy to look bad in favor of explanations that pin things on "identities", think violent Muslims. (sorry for being sloppy, will return to this later, have papers to finish)
"The world is nonsense bro"

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 20806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:21 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:59 am
It's not a logic fail. Even the prime minister of Norway credits the energy industry for the success of their welfare state, something they are attempting to correct now.
The windfall from the oil and gas well has undoubtedly added to social program funds, and there is an end to that money stream. Nobody denies that, and the end of the windfall will not come as a surprise. The necessary adjustments are being discussed for at least a decade now, but this is certain: Norway was a capitalist country with strong welfare programs decades before the oil and gas reserves were discovered, and they are not going to disappear after the oil and gas reserves are exhausted. Norway is by no means the only capitalist country with strong social programs. There is a number of others who have them too, and they've managed without oil wealth.

So, stop making excuses for the USA's incapacity, or more accurately it's unwillingness to institute and fund strong social welfare programs. It has the wealth, but you people prefer to hand it to individuals, particularly the already rich individuals, in the form of tax cuts, so they can piss it up the wall, buy yachts and jets with or whatever immediate fancy drives them.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 62493
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by JimC » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:27 am

Additionally, most western European countries typically also have comprehensive welfare packages without access to oil. I agree with Hermit that Norway has had it a bit easier given its revenue flow, but it cannot be used as an excuse by other advanced countries with significant poverty levels and growing inequality.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 12591
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijk beschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: "Alt-right" Still Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:44 am

The UK could have been in the same position as Norway but Thatcher used the money against the miners and passed it around her cronies who are now the Brexiteers.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests