BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

[Rum]

Looking at detail has always been the UK's failing. "Just muddle through" has always done the trick.

Thanks for the heads up there.

[Clinton Huxley]

No government and no opposition.

I did like this from the Guardian today:-

" I know rebelling against the leadership is Corbyn’s comfort zone, but it does make you look a historic tit when you are the leadership."

[Clinton Huxley]

Must have read a dozen different commentators this week, all extolling their differing view of the "only way out of this mess". Derp.

[Rum]

I’ve given up. Basically if we leave without a deal we go temporarily down the shitter, but pick up after a few years, though not to the point we would have if we remained. If we leave *with* a deal we won’t go quite so far down the shitter and the downturn won’t be as bad.

Simples, though probably wrong.

[Brian Peacock]

Stepping back from all this Brexit Brouhaha, I find it odd that a club/group such as the EU, did not, at its inception, foresee that a member might wish to leave the club/group and make resignation a 'simple', er, 'automatic' process.
What we have now, (from my simple-minded POV), is bureaucracy gone mad with neither side giving way and each side waving a 'big stick' at the other side.

Many Brexit voters make the point that when we joined the EU was basically a trading block. The ‘ever closer union’ element was not apparent back then. The Maastricht treaty in 1992 brought members even closer together and of course all the while, as you point out, the bureaucrats were having a field day establishing common standards, regulations and the like. I don’t think it even occurred to them that a country might want to leave, though that does seem a huge oversight if so.

The gordion knot that now presents itself is hugely complex and there are many who take the view that it should just be slashed, rather than untangled - a ‘disorderly’ exit as they say.

The knot may be gordian, but it's directly related and relevant to basic principle that caused the EEC to be formed in the first place. The EU is fundamentally an economic alliance formed to facilitate trade on the understanding the nations which share resources and trade freely have a vested interest in each others welfare and success. The bureaucracy isn't something that's been imposed, its emerged from the political and economic needs of the various member states. Part of the lie about the EU here is that it's an organisation which tells member states what to do - though it's never worked like that.

Anyway, Parliament has effectively taken the no-deal, so-called Hard Brexit off the table. This is at least one slightly, vaguely positive thing.

[Forty Two]

I think the hand-wringing is largely a manufactured issue. Just "leave." No deal is necessary.

I think what happens is that some folks push the notion that a deal is necessary to avoid some impending disaster. Then the politicians protect themselves by making it look like they are trying to avoid the impending disaster (which is basically just speculation -- there will be guard towers and firefights between Northern Ireland and Ireland again!! Maybe... I mean... it could happen...).

The reality is, if had to lay a bet, I would say that the UK will be just fine once it leaves, and it doesn't need a "deal." The EU won't give the UK a "deal" because they have no incentive to do so. They can't give the UK a sweet arrangement, because then all sorts of other countries in the EU will be like... hey...wait a minute... if they can get that deal, then so can we...

Anyway - just quit the EU. You voted. Leave won. Leave. There are like 200 countries in the world, and plenty of places to sell your stuff to. Somebody is going to make it worth your while.

[Scot Dutchy]

42 go and play in your shit arse of your country and leave civilised people to find positive solutions. We all know your Orange Turd is always against the EU so just fuck off.

[Rum]

(Edit: in response to 42 above)

Well you are not quite up to date. Because it would actually be really dumb to leave without a deal Parliament has just voted (sensibly for once, arguably) to rule out leaving without one.

[Brian Peacock]

At this point we're still leaving the EU - the matter is about how and, to some extent, when. The reason to sort the trade arrangements out is because the EU accounts for 40% of our exports and 50% of our imports. And besides, nobody is going to vote for a party which oversaw an estimated $9bn rise in the price of food, hikes in fuel prices, and the like - as the government and others have predicted in the event of a no-deal exit.

[Animavore]

Just stay. Don't be eejits.

[Scot Dutchy]

Very true Brian which is why idiots on the other side of the pond just dont understand how it works and does most of the UK parliament.

The real big problem is no deal is not removed; it is still there legally by statute which bampots like Farage and Moggs are still hoping on.
Also the chances of a veto against any extension by one of the EU 27 is very great. They are just so sick it is not true and even our PM is at the end of his tether and he has been in the front-line of negotiations as well trying for compromise.

Unless something can be found and this may include May's Deal being dragged out again there is little hope of anything but a no deal exit.

[Brian Peacock]

Just stay. Don't be eejits.

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[Scot Dutchy]

(Edit: in response to 42 above)

Well you are not quite up to date. Because it would actually be really dumb to leave without a deal Parliament has just voted (sensibly for once, arguably) to rule out leaving without one.

Just look at who he supports; the dumbest arse in the world who finally agreed that planes that fall out of the sky are not safe.

[Forty Two]

At this point we're still leaving the EU - the matter is about how and, to some extent, when. The reason to sort the trade arrangements out is because the EU accounts for 40% of our exports and 50% of our imports. And besides, nobody is going to vote for a party which oversaw an estimated $9bn rise in the price of food, hikes in fuel prices, and the like - as the government and others have predicted in the event of a no-deal exit.

Leaving the EU doesn't prohibit trading with the EU. The UK will simply fall into another trade category. Once the UK leaves, then it can negotiate new treaties.

More "chicken little" predictions. What are they basing their predictions on? They have nothing to lose in predicting disaster. And, whatever basis they are using to make such predictions - I guarantee it - are so vague and malleable as to allow any prediction that someone desires.

[Forty Two]

(Edit: in response to 42 above)

Well you are not quite up to date. Because it would actually be really dumb to leave without a deal Parliament has just voted (sensibly for once, arguably) to rule out leaving without one.

How can parliament rule out leaving without one? wasn't the referendum to leave? Now all Parliament needs to do in order to scuttle the referendum is to never pass a deal?

Well, I admit I'm not following it closely. Make a deal then. but, have done with it -- the results of leaving are not going to be an apocalypse. You've got a fine country there, and plenty of trading partners, and the EU is not going anywhere - they'll still trade with you after the exit. It's business. It's not personal.