All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Woodbutcher wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:08 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:47 pm
Animavore wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:42 pm
Refer to my sig.
Because one lady referred to hurting the people he's supposed to be hurting?

Most people who voted for Trump wanted to help people, by expanding the economy, supporting American business, securing the border, reducing unemployment, and helping preserve American industry.

If you want to talk about ideologies that advocate "hurting" the right kind of people, one doesn't have to stray out of the Left. Stick it too 'em, right?
Actually, I believe most people voted for Trump because, according to them, he's not like a politician. At least that is what a voter told me. They did not think anything would change if they voted for anybody else. They got a "reality" show instead. It's far moved from reality, though, I noticed with the very first reality show that it was just politics, not survival. Just a form of viewer conditioning that would make people more malleable to future government tactics.
Actually what they got is booming jobs numbers. Announced today: 304,000 jobs added to the economy in January, DESPITE the government shutdown. "Smashing estimates."

Continuing his efforts to continue boosting American manufacturing, he signed an executive order today which focuses on American infrastructure projects - just like one of the things he promised. https://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/ ... y-america/ (I just scanned the channels -- barely a mention - and when CNN and MSNBC covered the jobs numbers, it was with blank stares and toned down reports - quick mentions then off to discussing abortion.

US manufacturing continuing to improve --- https://www.zacks.com/stock/news/346141 ... 19-5-picks

Trump's China policy is working, and bringing Beijing to heel -- https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/28/tr ... trump-gdp/
The president’s assertions of Chinese malfeasance in trade matters are undeniably true. Even CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, no fan of the president, has said, “Donald Trump is right: China is a trade cheat,” going on to praise the U.S. trade representative’s exhaustive report on China’s World Trade Organization noncompliance as a rare example of a quality document from this administration.

Despite dire warnings from establishment economists and media pundits that getting tough on China would damage the U.S. economy, we have seen nothing of the kind. The United States is not simply surviving the trade war but has thrived through two years of global stagnation. In the meantime, as best as can be told from highly unreliable and often-faked data, Chinese economic growth has stalled. The hard-line U.S. policy has been effective and should be maintained until China demonstrates real, substantial behavioral change such as no longer requiring forced joint partnerships and ceasing its vast state-run cyberespionage
The initial results are now in. The current trade policy has demonstrated its effectiveness, and it is undermining the Communist Party’s only source of legitimacy: ill-gotten economic growth. And on the U.S. side, it’s going to be easier to maintain than most people think.

The U.S. market remains the most valuable economic prize on Earth, something this week’s annual Black Friday consumption-fest underscores. It is, by far, the world’s largest economy, with a 2017 GDP of $19.4 trillion. That’s at least 60 percent larger than China’s $12.2 trillion and probably a lot more, as China’s dubious GDP figures bend to fit official targets.
The United States is also the healthiest major economy, with robustly increasing GDP growth and the lowest unemployment rate in nearly 50 years. China is not likely to catch up in our lifetimes. Additionally, the United States has a much smaller population dividing those spoils—and being less burdened by taxes than their global counterparts, U.S. consumers can spend far more than the citizens of any large nation.

Most importantly, China is paying the lion’s share of America’s tariffs. While advocates of free trade have worked hard to scare consumers with threats of huge price increases, these have not emerged. This is because any additional cost incurred in the distribution of a product may be allocated to either the consumer, through higher prices, or to the producer, through lower margins. The market determines this split as consumers demonstrate their tolerance for absorbing higher prices. The elasticity of demand for products determines the price, and a recent European study by EconPol concludes“A 25 percentage point increase in tariffs raises US consumer prices on all affected Chinese products by only 4.5% on average, while the producer price of Chinese firms declines by 20.5%.” And don’t forget that the entire 25 percent goes into the U.S. Treasury, feeding America’s economy, not China’s. If Chinese prices eventually do increase, the same system will force distributors and retailers to absorb the cost before consumers. Their suppliers are already moving to non-China sources.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:33 pm

Animavore wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:05 pm
Image
Any thinking person's eyebrow, at least, should be raised by the dog-and-pony-show put on by the FBI in arresting Stone. He didn't own a gun. He was accused of not telling the truth. He was arrested in a SWAT raid, and frog marched barefoot into the street, and his wife was taken out of their house and left to stand in the street in her nightgown. The FBI had closed off the street to Stone's house to all traffic, but somehow CNN "had a hunch" that the FBI was going to conduct this raid at 5am that morning, and happened to sneak through the FBI's cordoned off zone and be right there to film the "dangerous suspect" being marched out of his house.

Pull the other one.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:52 pm

Bullshit. How come you suddenly don't know how people are arrested in this country? Are you going to say that claims of excessive force aren't common? Please.

Why does Stone deserve special treatment? Where are the voices for all the poor bastids arrested since Stone? It's all bullshit man.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:53 pm

--everyone says "but you were here to arrest me for x" it's not like I killed someone, Jesus! :lol: But nope, the feds did something completely unheard of!
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:11 pm

White-collar criminal can't believe he's being treated like a criminal. The nation loses its shit, down with criminalizing white-collar crime!
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Animavore » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:14 pm

If he was black he'd be dead so he shouldn't complain.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:19 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:11 pm
White-collar criminal can't believe he's being treated like a criminal. The nation loses its shit, down with criminalizing white-collar crime!
He's not a white collar criminal. White collar crime are financial crimes - Stone was just accused of making misstatements to the FBI. That's not EVEN white collar crime.

And, white collar criminals aren't arrested this way, so for the FBI to stage this show is interesting.

Why wasn't Hillary frog-marched out of her house. The then head of the FBI - James Comey - expressly stated in sworn testimony before Congress that she lied many times to the FBI.

What's the difference?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Animavore » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:20 pm

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Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Animavore » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:21 pm

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:21 pm

Animavore wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:14 pm
If he was black he'd be dead so he shouldn't complain.
Image
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Animavore wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:21 pm
Image
No,what he's saying is that it's a way for Democrats to cheat.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:30 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:19 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:11 pm
White-collar criminal can't believe he's being treated like a criminal. The nation loses its shit, down with criminalizing white-collar crime!
He's not a white collar criminal. White collar crime are financial crimes - Stone was just accused of making misstatements to the FBI. That's not EVEN white collar crime.

And, white collar criminals aren't arrested this way, so for the FBI to stage this show is interesting.

Why wasn't Hillary frog-marched out of her house. The then head of the FBI - James Comey - expressly stated in sworn testimony before Congress that she lied many times to the FBI.

What's the difference?
:lol: I knew you would do that. I used white-collar because it is how most people understand a crime like Stone's. It's how they would expect him to be treated. In fact you can even find the term being used to describe him elsewhere. That it isn't or may not be technically accurate is irrelevant.


He was treated like a criminal. What he experienced is common for criminals. Why should he receive special treatment?
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:31 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:53 pm
--everyone says "but you were here to arrest me for x" it's not like I killed someone, Jesus! :lol: But nope, the feds did something completely unheard of!
...yes, the FBI commonly let's CNN film them banging on the door -- that's typical.
If there was no legitimate reason for the arrest and handcuffing of this presumed innocent defendant, what was the illegitimate reason? The illegitimate purpose of the arrest was to intimidate the potential witness -- namely Stone -- into not invoking his constitutional right to remain silent, rather than to testify as a government witness.

As Judge T.S. Ellis, III, who presided over the Manafort trial observed: "You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud – what you really care about is what information Mr. Manafort could give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump or lead to his prosecution or impeachment."

The ACLU has been absolutely silent in regard to the questionable tactics employed by Mueller. They, too, would have been up in arms had these tactics been employed against their favorite candidate and mine, Hillary Clinton. Their silence speaks volumes about their partisanship and lack of neutral standards of civil liberties.

Congress must act to prevent these abuses from recurring.
If Hillary Clinton had been elected president and if a special prosecutor had arrested one of her associates in the rough and demeaning manner by which Stone was arrested, civil libertarians would be up in arms. They would correctly argue that to marshal dozens of armed FBI agents to arrest an elderly man accused of non-violent crimes is an abuse of authority and a waste of FBI resources. They would complain that it constitutes intimidation and violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. But because the arrest is of a Trump associate and the purpose is to get evidence against President Trump, we have not heard from fair-weather civil libertarians who use civil liberties and constitutional rights as tactics to serve their partisan political agendas.

The ACLU has been absolutely silent in regard to the questionable tactics employed by Mueller. They, too, would have been up in arms had these tactics been employed against their favorite candidate and mine, Hillary Clinton. They would have demanded an explanation as to why the extraordinary power of arrest, which is supposed to be reserved only for cases warranting this use of force, was employed in this case. Their silence speaks volumes about their partisanship and lack of neutral standards of civil liberties.

The American public is entitled to an honest explanation of why Stone was arrested. We have not received the truth. Congress should hold a hearing and call as witnesses those who ordered the arrest and demand they explain and justify it. It is unlikely that a plausible and credible explanation will be offered, but Mueller and his FBI agents should at least have an opportunity to set the record straight.
Maybe there is a good reason for why the arrest was necessary, but if so, we have not heard it and it is unlikely that the reason involves national security or other secrets. These hearings should lead to legislation setting enforceable standards for when the kind of arrest to which Stone was subjected should be permissible. The power to arrest, using armed FBI agents, handcuffs and shackles must not become a tactic to be used by law enforcement for impermissible reasons. Nor should it become routine. Congress must act to prevent these abuses from recurring.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1364 ... one-arrest
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:32 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:30 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:19 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:11 pm
White-collar criminal can't believe he's being treated like a criminal. The nation loses its shit, down with criminalizing white-collar crime!
He's not a white collar criminal. White collar crime are financial crimes - Stone was just accused of making misstatements to the FBI. That's not EVEN white collar crime.

And, white collar criminals aren't arrested this way, so for the FBI to stage this show is interesting.

Why wasn't Hillary frog-marched out of her house. The then head of the FBI - James Comey - expressly stated in sworn testimony before Congress that she lied many times to the FBI.

What's the difference?
:lol: I knew you would do that. I used white-collar because it is how most people understand a crime like Stone's. It's how they would expect him to be treated. In fact you can even find the term being used to describe him elsewhere. That it isn't or may not be technically accurate is irrelevant.


He was treated like a criminal. What he experienced is common for criminals. Why should he receive special treatment?
He got "special" treatment. The way they arrested him was not normal or commonplace. His treatment was especially bad, apparently as a means of intimidating him into "singing." And, have you heard any explanation from anyone as to why it was done this way?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:36 pm

What do you mean it's not normal or common place to be arrested in this way? It is normal and commonplace. Do you mean that it usually doesn't happen to guys like Stone? Is that really all you mean? That sounds bad to me. In that case can you to tell me why Stone and guys like him deserve special treatment, and maybe why his not getting that treatment has so upset you.
I was given a year of free milkshakes once. The year passed and I hadn’t bothered to get even one.

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