Individual-1, a joke or a threat? (talk Trump)

[Tero]

Patrick Shanahan
https://twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/ ... 6161553408

[L'Emmerdeur]

I sure wouldn't want to be in the 'gullible stooges' group, nor the 'cynical slackwits' group. I guess that means I should just join the 'NeverTrump-NPC' gang, huh?

So in your view, somebody who isn't parroting a demonstrably false Trump narrative is thereby opposing Trump. You may be onto something there.

[Cunt]

Doesn't matter, or doesn't matter as much as the 'closed borders / open borders' divide.

The trouble is there hasn't been a good reason offered for not building it, except if you want more illegal entrants. Waste of infrastructure money? How about paying congressional salaries while they deliberately shut down the government? Waste of money is what government does at almost every turn.

What do you mean by a 'closed borders / open borders' divide? What do closed or open border policies look like in this context?

I guess it is because people seem to want the US southern border open - though the objections are usually 'the wall won't work', or 'the wall is environmentally unsound'. I think a lot of people wish to allow Central/South Americans the opportunity to cross into the US with or without permission.

But it isn't clear, always presented as some opposition to the wall itself.

Maybe finding a better question to illustrate this would be helpful...

Would you support the US stopping foreign citizens from crossing into the US via their land and sea borders?

[Cunt]

I sure wouldn't want to be in the 'gullible stooges' group, nor the 'cynical slackwits' group. I guess that means I should just join the 'NeverTrump-NPC' gang, huh?

So in your view, somebody who isn't parroting a demonstrably false Trump narrative is thereby opposing Trump. You may be onto something there.

Shouldn't you toss in a joke about how Obama and the Clintons are heroes compared to Orange-Bone-Spur-Man?

[pErvinalia]

What would a joke like that look like?

[Rum]

Talk about straw men. I doubt if anyone except a tiny minority of ultra liberals would advocate ‘open borders’. Every country has the right to control their borders as they see fit - loosely controlled, closely controlled or filtering out those the country doesn’t want. The oroblem arises when the policy in question becomes unenforceable, as seems to be the case with the Mexico and several European borders. When that happens the question arises as to how one reacts.

To resort to your favourite tactic - how would you react?

[Brian Peacock]

Doesn't matter, or doesn't matter as much as the 'closed borders / open borders' divide.

The trouble is there hasn't been a good reason offered for not building it, except if you want more illegal entrants. Waste of infrastructure money? How about paying congressional salaries while they deliberately shut down the government? Waste of money is what government does at almost every turn.

What do you mean by a 'closed borders / open borders' divide? What do closed or open border policies look like in this context?

I guess it is because people seem to want the US southern border open - though the objections are usually 'the wall won't work', or 'the wall is environmentally unsound'. I think a lot of people wish to allow Central/South Americans the opportunity to cross into the US with or without permission.

But it isn't clear, always presented as some opposition to the wall itself.

Maybe finding a better question to illustrate this would be helpful...

Would you support the US stopping foreign citizens from crossing into the US via their land and sea borders?

I wouldn't categorise in such a binary way - but that's the kind of language that now typifies this discussion. It's not a straight choice between an open border where 'Central/South Americans are allowed to cross into the US with or without permission' or 'The Wall' - I'm just wondering why you characterise in exactly those terms?

[Svartalf]

I sure wouldn't want to be in the 'gullible stooges' group, nor the 'cynical slackwits' group. I guess that means I should just join the 'NeverTrump-NPC' gang, huh?

So in your view, somebody who isn't parroting a demonstrably false Trump narrative is thereby opposing Trump. You may be onto something there.

Shouldn't you toss in a joke about how Obama and the Clintons are heroes compared to Orange-Bone-Spur-Man?

Wellll, aren't( they? though Obie certainly never deserved his peace nobel that he got for being president while mixed blood...

[Cunt]

Talk about straw men. I doubt if anyone except a tiny minority of ultra liberals would advocate ‘open borders’. Every country has the right to control their borders as they see fit - loosely controlled, closely controlled or filtering out those the country doesn’t want. The oroblem arises when the policy in question becomes unenforceable, as seems to be the case with the Mexico and several European borders. When that happens the question arises as to how one reacts.

To resort to your favourite tactic - how would you react?

I suppose I would react by trying to make a clear enough policy to implement it.

I'm not naive enough to think that this can be done in a way to be gentle with everyone, so would aim to favour one group of people over another. I understand it isn't popular to do so, but given the responsibility, I would favour US citizens over illegal entrants.

I expect that doing so would provide plenty of ammunition for media and anyone interested to paint me as a villain.

For myself, I have helped illegal immigrants to live their peaceful lives. I would also support law enforcement in the performance of their duties. If it came to a choice, I would generally side with the justice system over my personal preferences on the matter.

I do think that many avoid the question though. If you have anything other than 'open borders' as a goal, it means some people are going to be treated terribly. Families ripped apart, tragedy and misery to those who choose to leave.

If prisons were better, I would like to offer anyone being deported a choice - choose prison while appealing on whatever grounds, or leave and re-apply. (this doesn't work with prisons being awful, but they shouldn't be)

Most of all, I would consider what the damage was, though. If a lot of bad shit is coming across one border, stop it.

With the recent migrant march, which was attempting to enter the US illegally, I would wish they would deny ALL of them entry - quite rudely. I saw how their representatives behaved at the border...throwing rocks at law enforcement and trying to climb over the barrier. I know what I would want done in an airport where I saw that, and I would want the same done at a land border.

I really tried to answer you, now, can you do the same? Same question back at ya!

[Animavore]

While Trump supporters struggle to find a good reason for the wall beyond "Other people have walls" let us be reminded of some of the important reasons to not build a wall.

Trump’s Wall May Threaten Thousands of Plant and Animal Species on the U.S.–Mexico Border
The region—called the Sky Islands—harbors more than 7,000 species, many of which struggle to cross human-made obstructions

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... 4CMiczeQ_U

[Tero]

House probe of FBI-DOJ's alleged
anti-Trump, pro-Clinton bias hits
unceremonious end -- with no report

House Republicans unceremoniously ended their investigation into the way the FBI and the Department of Justice handled Hillary Clinton’s email scandal and the bias allegations against President Trump.

The House probe was led by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and the Judiciary Committee and sought to look into allegations that the FBI and the DOJ were biased against Trump during the 2016 presidential election and favored Clinton’s candidacy.

Two Republicans chairing the committees – Reps. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., and Robert Goodlatte, R-Va. – said in a letter Friday that the DOJ must appoint a special counsel to investigate the “seemingly disparate treatment” of the investigations into Clinton’s use of private emails and Trump’s alleged ties to Russia.
Foxnews

[Tero]

Beto on Trump wall
https://thinkprogress.org/beto-viral-vi ... edac6/amp/

[Animavore]

Trump to scrap Obama law stopping coal plants poisoning air with mercury
President prepares to undo Obama-era rules limiting output of pollutants that can cause birth defects and respiratory diseases

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 1546126245

When is enough enough?

[Tero]

Guvment shit down but we must pay for Trump party.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/taxpayers-su ... 46529.html

[Brian Peacock]

Trump to scrap Obama law stopping coal plants poisoning air with mercury
President prepares to undo Obama-era rules limiting output of pollutants that can cause birth defects and respiratory diseases

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 1546126245

When is enough enough?

You see now why Trump apologists would rather focus their efforts on tone policing, taking concern-trolling offense at anyone who thought Kavanaugh put up a poor show, or accusing critics of being deranged - the alternative is defending subsidising corporate profits with taxpayer handouts, stealing people's kids off them, or exposing folks to higher levels of known carcinogens.