I get that argument. I just don't think it's a very good one: an unknown number of outsiders are living here and getting into the country so we need a Southern wall to keep them.... in?Forty Two wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:37 pmDo you argue against any of the other 70+ walls around the world, or just the one in the US? Are there no good reasons for having a wall?Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:56 amI haven't heard any good arguments for having a wall. Surely such a proposal should proceed upon the basis of the claims made for it?
The reason for the wall is so that people can't walk into the United States.
In October and November 2018, CBP says 102,000 illegals were apprehended at the border coming into the US. That is a pace for 612,000 for the FY 2019, which is from October 1 to September 30, 2019. The wall would prevent that from happening. That number does not include the number of people who made it through and are here illegally, and we don't know what that number is, but estimates have ranged from 333,000 illegal crossings in a year up to a high about 1.5 million. There are estimates from 12 million to 30 million illegal immigrants living in the US.
I don't like the idea of the wall. But, I can't say I don't see a "problem" with those numbers. If they were Canadian, I'd see the same problem.
According to CBP figures 396,579 adults and children were apprehended after entering the country illegally across the Southern border in 2018, with another 124,511 presenting at Southern border posts seeking entry by legal means. 521,090 people is 0.2% of the US working-age population. 1.5 million people is 0.6% of the US working-age population, 12 million is 5% and 30 million is 12% of same. What if we assume that up to 10% of the US working-age population are undocumented - does that tally with your experience? Do really you think 10% of all jobs in the are filled by illegal economic migrants? What would you estimate there net contribution/cost to the economy might be? Are the economic consequences even that important? If not, why not, and what consequence are important?
The numbers crossing the border illegally is continuing to follow its long-standing downward trend. The cost of constructing the Southern border wall is estimated to be anywhere from $10 billion to $70 billion, depending who you ask. The costs of running and maintaining the wall are so vague and disparate as to fall into the 'Who the fuck knows?' category. Taking a conservative guesstimate at $25 billion for building the wall: this would mean it cost $48,000 for every person who tried to get into the US last year. However, arguments for the wall are not based on cost effectiveness, on when and how it will start paying for itself, if indeed it ever will -- and not least because Mexico is going to pay for it! -- but on the basis that the Southern border is too porous and needs to be sealed at any cost.
The Southern border wall will not solve the problems the Trump administration have suggested are caused by its absence. It is nothing but a long-running(!) Republican PR exercise to be paid for by US taxpayers.
