The Thread of Democrats

[rainbow]

Again, that's why we have to define terms. If your definition of communism includes the notion that individuals will have the right to choose their career paths, start new businesses like dental businesses if they want to, even if the State doesn't want them to, and even if it goes against the community plan for the means of production of dental services, then your kinder, gentler communism would be something to discuss. But it is not Communism in the classic sense, in the textbook sense - in the sense of any definition in common usage.

Marx’s Communism as Associations of Free Individuals
https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/mejb.2 ... 6-0108.xml

Marx defined communism as the transition from the “realm of necessity” to the “realm of freedom” and argued for the expansion of free-time, shortening of labor-time and the development of productive forces as its prerequisites. 5 Karl Marx, Frederick Engels: Manifesto of the Communist Party

What you fail to grasp is the difference between the transition to Communism, which was authoritarian
...and the ideal of Communism which was not.

Why do you battle so with this simple distinction?

Do one thing for me - above in the thread there is a link to the text of the Communist Manifesto. Since you are all about "quotes," would you please quote the Communist Manifesto where it says something that means the same thing as "Marx defined communism as the transition from the “realm of necessity” to the “realm of freedom” and argued for the expansion of free-time, shortening of labor-time and the development of productive forces as its prerequisites" -- the citation above is to the Communist Manifesto, which I first read when I was 13 years old, and I have read many times since. I put it to you that it does not define communism as the transition from the realm of necessity to the realm of freedom, and he does not state in there that there should be an expansion of free time, shortening of labor time adn develpment of productive forces as its prerequisites.

Are you really this idiotic?

Communism is the ideal, not the process.

I repeat: Why do you battle so with this simple distinction?

[Forty Two]

Again, that's why we have to define terms. If your definition of communism includes the notion that individuals will have the right to choose their career paths, start new businesses like dental businesses if they want to, even if the State doesn't want them to, and even if it goes against the community plan for the means of production of dental services, then your kinder, gentler communism would be something to discuss. But it is not Communism in the classic sense, in the textbook sense - in the sense of any definition in common usage.

Marx’s Communism as Associations of Free Individuals
https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/mejb.2 ... 6-0108.xml

Marx defined communism as the transition from the “realm of necessity” to the “realm of freedom” and argued for the expansion of free-time, shortening of labor-time and the development of productive forces as its prerequisites. 5 Karl Marx, Frederick Engels: Manifesto of the Communist Party

What you fail to grasp is the difference between the transition to Communism, which was authoritarian
...and the ideal of Communism which was not.

Why do you battle so with this simple distinction?

Do one thing for me - above in the thread there is a link to the text of the Communist Manifesto. Since you are all about "quotes," would you please quote the Communist Manifesto where it says something that means the same thing as "Marx defined communism as the transition from the “realm of necessity” to the “realm of freedom” and argued for the expansion of free-time, shortening of labor-time and the development of productive forces as its prerequisites" -- the citation above is to the Communist Manifesto, which I first read when I was 13 years old, and I have read many times since. I put it to you that it does not define communism as the transition from the realm of necessity to the realm of freedom, and he does not state in there that there should be an expansion of free time, shortening of labor time adn develpment of productive forces as its prerequisites.

Are you really this idiotic?

Communism is the ideal, not the process.

I repeat: Why do you battle so with this simple distinction?

No no. No diverting. Here. You demanded quotes, which I gave you - specific quotes and citations which said exactly what I said.

You made a specific assertion - you posted this "Marx defined communism as the transition from the “realm of necessity” to the “realm of freedom” and argued for the expansion of free-time, shortening of labor-time and the development of productive forces as its prerequisites. 5 Karl Marx, Frederick Engels: Manifesto of the Communist Party" - It's an assertion of what Marx defined communism as, and your quote uses "Marx/Engles, Manifesto of the Communist Party" as its source. I have tread that many times, and it -- quite simply - does not state anywhere in it that Marx defined communism in that way.

It's not correct, rainbow. The communist manifesto cannot be cited for that proposition because nowhere in the communist manifesto does it say that, or anything equivalent to that.

And, you deign to call me idiotic, rainbow? Fuck off. You don't know word one about this topic --- you are grossly misinformed about what Marx and Engels actually wrote.

[laklak]

I love the no-true communist arguments. Maybe we should argue over whether Mary was actually a virgin or Star Trek is better than Star Wars. Bottom line is every single time people have tried to establish a Communist Worker's Paradise it's been an dystopian, authoritarian, murderous shitstorm. But fuck it, let's try again. Maybe we'll get it right this time.

[Forty Two]

I love the no-true communist arguments. Maybe we should argue over whether Mary was actually a virgin or Star Trek is better than Star Wars. Bottom line is every single time people have tried to establish a Communist Worker's Paradise it's been an dystopian, authoritarian, murderous shitstorm. But fuck it, let's try again. Maybe we'll get it right this time.

...and I would add that it's not because they sodded off and went in a different direction, failing to follow the dictates of the proper ideology. Following the ideology leads directly and inevitably to the dystopia and authoritarianism you note.

[Forty Two]

[Forty Two]

[L'Emmerdeur]

We break away from the asinine memes for this news bulletin:

'Top Agenda Items In Upcoming Democratic-Majority House'

Green New Deal:
Being pushed by whiny millennial representatives who expect to just be handed a livable planet in the year 2060.

Healthcare:
Plan to introduce a broadly popular Medicare for all bill to slowly water down into a series of giveaways to big pharma.

Trump:
Still don’t like the guy!

Grandstanding To Go Viral On Social Media:
Members will be limited to one impassioned speech with viral video potential per month.

Corruption:
Committed to looking like they’re tackling political corruption.

Criticizing Nancy Pelosi:
Expected to be a top priority until approximately 10 years after Pelosi dies.

Immigration:
Following Senator Chuck Schumer’s lead in demanding that a border wall they regard as useless, unnecessary, and morally bankrupt receives no more than $1.6 billion in funding.

Infrastructure:
If there’s one thing they can agree with Republicans on, it’s that America’s crumbling bridges and roads are the perfect political bargaining chip.

Election Reform:
Party leadership is already doggedly working to ensure that the wave of true progressives taking office in January never happens again.

And now back to your regularly scheduled venomous puerility.

[rainbow]

I love the no-true communist arguments. Maybe we should argue over whether Mary was actually a virgin or Star Trek is better than Star Wars. Bottom line is every single time people have tried to establish a Communist Worker's Paradise it's been an dystopian, authoritarian, murderous shitstorm. But fuck it, let's try again. Maybe we'll get it right this time.

You're entitled to remain in ignorance, if that comforts you.

The fact that revolutions to overthrow Feudalist and Capitalist systems have lead to authoritarian regimes is not in question. Some were marginally better than what they replaced, others worse. However none were able to breakdown the inequalities between the poor and the ruling elites, just that one group of elites was replaced by another.

The Communist ideal is unobtainable in my opinion.

Do you disagree?

[laklak]

No, it is unobtainable, it's a fairy tale. That's what I said.

[Tero]

Predictions
Corruption:

Committed to looking like they’re tackling political corruption.

Criticizing Nancy Pelosi:

Expected to be a top priority until approximately 10 years after Pelosi dies.

Immigration:

Following Senator Chuck Schumer’s lead in demanding that a border wall they regard as useless, unnecessary, and morally bankrupt receives no more than $1.6 billion in funding
From
https://politics.theonion.com/top-agend ... HKsSO0fwX7

[Hermit]

Predictions
Corruption:

Committed to looking like they’re tackling political corruption.

Criticizing Nancy Pelosi:

Expected to be a top priority until approximately 10 years after Pelosi dies.

Immigration:

Following Senator Chuck Schumer’s lead in demanding that a border wall they regard as useless, unnecessary, and morally bankrupt receives no more than $1.6 billion in funding
From
https://politics.theonion.com/top-agend ... HKsSO0fwX7

L8

[Tero]

OK

[Forty Two]

No, it is unobtainable, it's a fairy tale. That's what I said.

And it's neither ideal, nor an ideal. It's inherently, deeply flawed and distasteful. Even the most rosy picture painted of an actual, real life communist society is a dystopian nightmare.

[Tero]

chicken soup
https://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/1076926111622270977

[Seabass]

Godless atheistic commie lesbian congresslady!

Kyrsten Sinema swears in to Congress using law book instead of religious book
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4238 ... d-of-bible

Sinema is the only member of Congress who openly identifies as religiously unaffiliated, according to the Pew Research Center for Religion and Public Life.

But The Arizona Republic points out that Sinema’s move to forgo using a religious book to take her ceremonial oath, as most members of Congress typically do, may only fuel ongoing speculation that she is an atheist.