US 2018 November elections

[Sean Hayden]

Rabies? How does Fox get away with this shit?

[Rum]

One of those right wing paranoid fucking loonies listed smallpox as being carried by immigrants.

The last recorded case of smallpox in the WORLd was in fucking 1971 and the WHO declared it eradicated in 1980.

What fuckwits.

[Sean Hayden]

They also fail to mention the cause of recent outbreaks of largely preventable diseases has been due to dumbass citizens who have been convinced by equally shitty reporting that vaccines cause autism!

You simply could not engineer a more perfect storm of fucking stupidity with real consequences if you tried. It's so fucking bad that I expend too much energy fighting the notion that this is our fate. It can't be avoided, and while not planned, it unfolds in this way every time as surely as water runs downhill. That I am opposed to the flow of that water is also an accident and completely unavoidable.

--motherfuckers!

[Rum]

We are perhaps watching America slip and begin to fall.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, our rise to the top was the result of accidents in history and we've never fully acknowledged that. We've had great successes. But we owe even more to chance, and that's a lesson we aren't going to learn in time I'm afraid.

[Forty Two]

Nobody's cuffing Trump. He's going to serve his term and he may even get reelected. These are crazy times. The Feds can't straighten him out, nobody cares what they've got on him and Trump doesn't either! Hell, a lot of us probably want to see the piss tape for the lulz.

What are you referring to, specifically, when you say "nobody cares what they've got on him?"

Have you got amnesia?

If I did, I likely wouldn't know. Let's just say that maybe you know something I don't.

Do you want a list of the trouble he's been in every time someone brings it up?

A list? How long is the list? How about the top three "things they've got on him..."?

Do you want all the times he's been dragged to court and forced to settle?

Sure, if you think being sued and settling is something "they've got on him...", yes. Last time I checked, every major corporation and every billionaire in the country has been sued.

Do you want to talk about his University?

If you like. What about it?

Or something else?

I don't know. You're the one who said they've "got something on him." I thought it was something big. Trump University, and Trump's businesses getting sued doesn't sound all that egregious.

Or, do you want to pretend that in all that shit, and there's plenty, the Feds couldn't find anything Trump might not want to be made public if he, or we as a country were sane?

Given all the leaks from his political opponents and "never trump" folks, I would think if there was anything important that they've got on him, we'd certainly hear about it. We hear about everything else. If you listen to the "leaks" to the press, Trump wakes up in the morning and starts yelling at and abusing his staff, fires some people, threatens to start a world war, acts like an idiot a few times, doesn't care about anything, stuffs some money in his pockets, then settles down in bed with ketchup laden steak and McDonald's cheeseburgers as he howls at the TV like big orange buffoon, until he passes out and gets up and starts it all over again.

Because that was the point of my post. I was ribbing both the Feds who have abused their power to the point of pressuring even Presidents in the past and Trump and co who don't give a fuck what Trump has done. He's their guy no matter what --a fucking saint that Trump.

What Trump has done. You mentioned Trump University and lawsuits filed against him. Of course nobody gives a fuck about that. Everyone knew all about that before he was elected. You mentioned "nobody is cuffing Trump." Yes, indeed. And why would they? He hasn't even been alleged to have committed a crime.

And, the "piss tape" doesn't exist. Do you really - for a second - think that if there was a real tape of Donald Trump engaging in kinky sexual activity that it wouldn't be made public? Adam Schiff (for brains) wouldn't leak that shit? Who knows about it, but is keeping it secret?

[Forty Two]

Well, our rise to the top was the result of accidents in history and we've never fully acknowledged that. We've had great successes. But we owe even more to chance, and that's a lesson we aren't going to learn in time I'm afraid.

It's a function of the British system, actually. England, Britain and ultimately the UK succeeded in building the largest colonial empire the world has ever seen by virtue of it's system, including its concepts of rights and individual liberties that it adopted out of the Scottish Enlightenment and from earlier principles. The French had a similarly successful system, which also had similar dedication to rights and individual liberty, with a twist of a greater reliance on traditional Roman civil law, etc.

Those are the two pillars of modern Western Civilization - the British pillar and the French pillar - and the United States essentially harmonized both.

It's not luck - and it's superior genetics - it's a superior system. If it falls, it will be a result of a betrayal of those foundational concepts and principles that made Western Civilization the most advanced and greatest on Earth.

[Forty Two]

We are perhaps watching America slip and begin to fall.

Less likely now than 2 years ago. The country has taken steps to solidify its position.

After tomorrow, if the Democrats take the House, then they'll derail the current train, or at least significantly slow it down.

If a miracle happens, and the Democrats don't take the House of Representatives, then you ain't seen nuthin' yet, my friend. By the 2020 election, Trump will be hailed as the most hated, but undoubtedly most successful President in the history of the United States.

[Sean Hayden]

Stepping in at the end of two world wars, one of which saw the end of the British Empire and our ascension, had a lot to do with chance and practically speaking did a hell of a lot more for us than your idealism.

[Forty Two]

Rabies? How does Fox get away with this shit?

[Sean Hayden]

Yes, rabies is real. Are you suggesting it's spread immigrant to US citizen? Is that a reasonable thing to worry about 42?

edit: got me, I didn't watch the video.

[Forty Two]

[sarcasm][/sarcasm]Stepping in at the end of two world wars, one of which saw the end of the British Empire and our ascension, had a lot to do with chance and practically speaking did a hell of a lot more for us than your idealism.

These were European wars, which were world wars because the European participants had immense colonial empires. The wars causes and beginnings had nothing to do with the United States.

Take the first world war -- it was the epitome of a colonial war. A bunch of colonial empires going at it - Austria-Hungary's emperor declares war on Serbia. The Russian Czar leading the Russian Empire comes to its ally Serbia's defense and invades Austria-Hungary. Germany comes to the aid of Austria-Hungary. France, allied with Russia, comes to the aid of Russia, and so too Britain becomes involved. The colonial empires drew on their overseas holdings to force subjugated peoples and colonies to fight.

So, the Guns of August 1914 --- it's very Eurocentric to think that anybody else would give a flying fuck that Austria went to war over a political assassination of a hereditary monarch's son, and the ridiculous interlocking alliances that drew all the colonial powers to war then had nothing to do with Africa, Asia, South America or North America.

The US was no more an ally of the UK back then than it was a German, French or Russian ally. In 1914, we were a mere hundred years from all out war with the UK, the countries were fierce enemies almost up to World War 1. The Great Rapprochement occurred around the Spanish American War, where the Brits curried favor with the US, but Americans living in 1914 were not considering themselves or the country some major ally with Britain.

The US didn't enter WW1 until 1917 because it wasn't its business. And we got involved in second half of that bullshit war because the Europeans were sitting there in trenches for years butchering hundreds of thousands of troops at a clip with wild abandon. The leaders of the war effort at that time were shameful in their disregard for human life, continuing to order troops over the top to attack German positions even after the commanders themselves knew of the completed Armistice and that it would go into effect within a day or hours. They kept attacking -- on November 11, 1918, more troops were killed than in the entire Iraq War.

Also, WW2 - that war arose out of European stupidity. Against American advice and desires, after World War 1, the allied forces blamed Germany for the war, and exacted massive, massive punishment on Germany. This drove Germany into depression and subjugation, and created the very environment for another war - which was predicted by many decades before it started. It was a world war in name, but a European War in actual fact. In 1939, the US did not have anywhere close to a top military. WE were not a warlike country, and we were in no position to move a million men across the Atlantic ocean to help fight another European war. The Roosevelt admnistration concluded that we would have to eventually get involved, and we started helping the UK with Lend Lease, but it took actually getting attacked by Japan to bring us in. And, when we did get into the war, it wasn't "at the end." Even as late as June, 1944, the outcome of the war was in serious doubt.

But, again, the war was not our doing, and not our business.

If that means that the complete arming and industrialization of the US during the 1940s, as a result of being forced into another bullshit European conflagration is "luck" which made us the most powerful country (and thereby the country that had to stand toe-to-toe with the murderous Soviet Union), I guess that part was luck.

But, please, let's not fall for the usual European line that the US "only waited until the end" and then opportunistically entered the war to get the credit. That's happy horseshit.

[Forty Two]

Yes, rabies is real. Are you suggesting it's spread immigrant to US citizen? Is that a reasonable thing to worry about 42?

edit: got me, I didn't watch the video.

[Sean Hayden]

I didn't say we entered to get the credit, or that we entered because we liked the UK. I believe Roosevelt hated them because they were an Empire. What I said was that we benefited more from especially the second world war than from your idealism and that this had a lot to do with chance.

[Forty Two]

Morning Joe, MSNBC
Joe: Trump could talk about jobs in closing message, but he's 'chosen to attack brown people'

That's, of course, Joe talking to people who wouldn't deign to listen to Trump's speeches. Trump has talked about jobs and the economy in every speech, but the media like Joe and the rest of MSNBC pretend he doesn't mention it. They also characterize the immigration issue as "attacking brown people" which is horse shit, and they know it. The same rules apply to any color person. The Mexican population is about 1/2 white, and half non-white (and most of the so-called non-white population is Mestizo). What's racist is Joe Scarborough pretending that Mexican = brown skinned.