Kavanaugh hearing

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Joe
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:00 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:01 pm
Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:15 am
Yep, McConnell has made his move to wrap it up by the weekend, according to Politico. My guess he has the votes, and the FBI will report nothing big, so unless the media breaks a big story the advocacy groups will count their money and wait for the next scandal they can fund raise off of.
Of course he has the votes - Blasey Ford's allegations wouldn't even justify probable cause for a warrant, and the easy, kid-gloves questioning at last week's hearing exposed her story as not believable.

Ramirez made an allegation that she later says she's not sure about.

Swetnick flat out says in her most recent version of events that all she saw was Kavanaugh, 3 years younger than her, drinking out of plastic cups at a party and standing around.

The whole charade is pure, unadulterated bullshit. They have to confirm him for the sake of reason and logic.
Based on your history, I'm sure you're some kind of expert on bullshit, but I disregard unsupported assertions from you. You aren't exactly an unbiased commentor.

It's well established that Kavanaugh's testimony raised concerns about lying under oath. Some people think that's bad form for a Supreme Court justice, and want his nomination withdrawn.

Who'd of thought?
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Well, if the FBI couldn't verify Kavanaugh and Blas at parties together, it's because they were at paties together and memories fade over time (understandably so). It's not because they weren't at parties together.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Tero » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:05 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:34 pm
Tero wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:26 pm
This is fishy. They went to different schools yet they ended up with multiple parties together. The FBI failed to make even a connection?
They were at multiple parties together? Who said that?
OK, events. She had met him more than once. Her opening statement.

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:10 pm

Tero wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:05 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:34 pm
Tero wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:26 pm
This is fishy. They went to different schools yet they ended up with multiple parties together. The FBI failed to make even a connection?
They were at multiple parties together? Who said that?
OK, events. She had met him more than once. Her opening statement.
No need to move goalposts, Tero. You will be believed no matter how wrong your 'facts'.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 pm

Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:00 pm

Based on your history, I'm sure you're some kind of expert on bullshit, but I disregard unsupported assertions from you. You aren't exactly an unbiased commentor.
LOL - do you disregard unsupported assertions from everyone who's biased, or just me?

Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:00 pm

It's well established that Kavanaugh's testimony raised concerns about lying under oath. Some people think that's bad form for a Supreme Court justice, and want his nomination withdrawn.

Who'd of thought?
Rather then declare it well-established, why not establish it. Please note the thing Kavanaugh said (as distinct from someone else's interpretation of it) that has been shown to be false.

Like in the article, they say The National Council of Churches alleged that Kavanaugh’s testimony included “several misstatements and some outright falsehoods,” including some related to Christine Blasey Ford’s accusation that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her at a high school party in the 1980s. - did it? Odd that they didn't provide an example or two, particularly the "some" falsehoods related to Ford's accusation that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her. What statement was that?

The article and the statement by the NCC doesn't "establish" anything - it states its opinion, which they are entitled to. But if you want to call it established, you at least have to (a) cite or refer to Kavanaugh's statement, and (b) show what makes you think it's demonstrably false.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:19 pm

Tero wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:05 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:34 pm
Tero wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:26 pm
This is fishy. They went to different schools yet they ended up with multiple parties together. The FBI failed to make even a connection?
They were at multiple parties together? Who said that?
OK, events. She had met him more than once. Her opening statement.
Gee, that is remarkable that the FBI couldn't verify that. She places her good friend Leland at parties Leland didn't attend. She placed good guy PJ at a party he never attended. The very notion that she would place Kavanaugh at a party he didn't attend is victim blaming.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:30 pm

Did she do this for fame? Money? Political games? No, there is NO evidence of any of that.
$533,437 of $150,000 goal
https://www.gofundme.com/help-christine-blasey-ford

Nope. Nothing here to indicate she did this for anything other than Truth, Justice and the American Way.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:31 pm

If you believe her claims, you should probably go give, and give generously. She is just a poor victim, with 2 front doors and a memory so shaken by trauma she forgets that second escape sometimes.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:34 pm

Does she remember waking up on all those bathroom floors?

Her drinking is not relevant!

His excessive drinking means he very likely blacked out and doesn't remember sexually assaulting her. Her excessive drinking doesn't mean her memories of Kavanaugh are off.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:39 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:11 pm
Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:00 pm

Based on your history, I'm sure you're some kind of expert on bullshit, but I disregard unsupported assertions from you. You aren't exactly an unbiased commentor.
LOL - do you disregard unsupported assertions from everyone who's biased, or just me?

Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:00 pm

It's well established that Kavanaugh's testimony raised concerns about lying under oath. Some people think that's bad form for a Supreme Court justice, and want his nomination withdrawn.

Who'd of thought?
Rather then declare it well-established, why not establish it. Please note the thing Kavanaugh said (as distinct from someone else's interpretation of it) that has been shown to be false.

Like in the article, they say The National Council of Churches alleged that Kavanaugh’s testimony included “several misstatements and some outright falsehoods,” including some related to Christine Blasey Ford’s accusation that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her at a high school party in the 1980s. - did it? Odd that they didn't provide an example or two, particularly the "some" falsehoods related to Ford's accusation that Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her. What statement was that?

The article and the statement by the NCC doesn't "establish" anything - it states its opinion, which they are entitled to. But if you want to call it established, you at least have to (a) cite or refer to Kavanaugh's statement, and (b) show what makes you think it's demonstrably false.
I discount unsupported assertions as a rule, regardless of bias, although in recognition of your "accomplishments," I apply extra skepticism. :)

The link I provided establishes the concerns, your unsupported assertions notwithstanding. As for the lies in Kavanaugh's testimony, I provided ample evidence of that in a previous response to you.

Interesting that you've forgotten that. :bored:
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:20 pm

Joe you are wasting your time. Nice try but as always with Trumpets they will not see the truth.
Any cunt with even a suggestion of what Kavanaugh has done is not fit for any office but that is OIA for you.
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:56 pm

Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:39 pm

I discount unsupported assertions as a rule, regardless of bias, although in recognition of your "accomplishments," I apply extra skepticism. :)
Good, then we are in agreement in rejecting Dr. Blas' unsupported assertions?

Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:39 pm

The link I provided establishes the concerns, your unsupported assertions notwithstanding. As for the lies in Kavanaugh's testimony, I provided ample evidence of that in a previous response to you.

Interesting that you've forgotten that. :bored:
I hadn't forgotten - but, you think that is "ample evidence" of Kavanaugh "lying?" If you do, then you can't possibly credit anything Dr. Ford says worth a damn, because if you think anything you posted proves or even tends to show Kavanaugh lied, I think you need to reexamine it.

1. Ludington - you quoted him as saying the he witnessed Kavanaugh in a bar get in a dispute and rather than diffuse it, Kavanaugh escalated and threw a beer at him. Only, that's refuted by the police report, which says he was accused of throwing ice, but did not confirm that he had done so. Only, he never said that didn't happen. He did not lie about it.

2. The article that you linked to, crediting Seabass, was pathetic. The first lie they say he told was denying that he was at party like the one described by Ford. They say this is a lie because he had been to high school parties where people drank beer and got together at houses. Obviously, this is not a lie - Kavanaugh admitted to regularly drinking beer, to excess and attending parties. His denial was not to ever attending a get together. His denial was to attending the party Ford said he attended, or anything like it - he has to answer that way, because Ford's accusation is so ridiculously vague that he can't do anything but generally deny it - she doesn't say where it is, when it is, and she's not consistent with who was there or how many people were there. To say that's a lie is simply absurd.

The writer goes on to say that because Kavanaugh attended a July 1 party with OTHER PEOPLE and PJ and Mark Judge, that he must be lying when he says he didn't attend a party like the one alleged by Ford. This is stupid. That party was at night -- the party that Ford alleges was -- as the writer of the article describes - a "pre-party" at someone's house - during the day - and Ford herself says it was early in the day, because she was not at that time allowed to go out later at night - when she said Kavanaugh's parties generally occurred. So, the writer says basically - "Kavanaugh denied going to a party like the one described by Ford, but he did go to other parties, so he's a liar." You don't actually credit that as making sense, do you?

Then he says Kavanaugh lied when he said that Keyser said it didn't happen, because the writer says that Keyser said I don't remember any such party, and I never met Kavanaugh. So, her own statement shows that Kavanaugh is right - if Keyser "never met Kavanaugh" then she couldn't have been at this party Ford describes, because if she was, then she would have met kavanaugh - Ford herself says Kavanaugh and Judge were downstairs talking to the other party goers - PJ, Keyser and the host. So, logically, Keyser could not have been at the party if she never met Kavanaugh. They say that Keyser later said she "believes" Ford's allegations (I assume that means that she was attacked by Kavanaugh), but that doesn't have anything to do with attendance at the party, does it? She believes that Ford was attacked, but it logically was not at a party Keyser was in attendance at because if she was there she would have met Kavanaugh and she unequivocally said she did not.

The next specific lie that is referenced is supposedly Kavanaugh wanting to give the impression that he was not an excessive or rowdy drinker. That's not accurate. Kavanaugh said he wasn't "black out" drunk. He admitted very clearly that he drank a lot in high school, excessively. He simply did not lie about his drinking.

The article posted fails to identify a single false representation.

It's better - instead of just posting links to giant articles and saying here's the proof - if you think he lied, then link to the article but actually type a post about what you think an example or two of the best lies are. He lied when he said X, because [insert reason we know it's a lie]. That article you linked to was long, but did not identify a lie.

I mean - the article says that when he says he may have met Keyser in high school, he must be lying because he should have said, I know of her now, but I don't recall meeting her in high school. the article says he was trying to deceive us, because he said that he remmbers her, but doesn't know where he met her. The writer thinks he's being evasive and trying to avoid a connection with Ford. That's what the writer calls a "lie". According to this writer, Ford can forget almost everything pertinent to the event in question, but Kavanaugh has to remember where he met Leland Keyser, or he's lying.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Forty Two » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:04 pm

the sarcastic "interesting that you have forgetten that" -- there is no need to pepper these things with insults like that - I don't do that to you. I haven't ignored that article - I've refuted it. I've addressed this issue in very specific detail. Very specific. When I say Ford isn't telling the truth or there is a problem with her statements, I set forth exactly what she says and I explain exactly why what she said cannot be believed or is not persuasive.

Now, if you dispute what I've said about the article - let's have a calm conversation about it. Let's take it "alleged lie by alleged lie" one at a time, and let's examine it. Start with Ludington -- what exactly did Kavanaugh say that, if Ludington is believe, is a "lie?"
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:06 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:56 pm
Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:39 pm

I discount unsupported assertions as a rule, regardless of bias, although in recognition of your "accomplishments," I apply extra skepticism. :)
Good, then we are in agreement in rejecting Dr. Blas' unsupported assertions?
Absolutely, I discount them for lack of evidence, and have said so.
Forty Two wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:56 pm
Joe wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:39 pm

The link I provided establishes the concerns, your unsupported assertions notwithstanding. As for the lies in Kavanaugh's testimony, I provided ample evidence of that in a previous response to you.

Interesting that you've forgotten that. :bored:
I hadn't forgotten - but, you think that is "ample evidence" of Kavanaugh "lying?" If you do, then you can't possibly credit anything Dr. Ford says worth a damn, because if you think anything you posted proves or even tends to show Kavanaugh lied, I think you need to reexamine it.

1. Ludington - you quoted him as saying the he witnessed Kavanaugh in a bar get in a dispute and rather than diffuse it, Kavanaugh escalated and threw a beer at him. Only, that's refuted by the police report, which says he was accused of throwing ice, but did not confirm that he had done so. Only, he never said that didn't happen. He did not lie about it.

2. The article that you linked to, crediting Seabass, was pathetic. The first lie they say he told was denying that he was at party like the one described by Ford. They say this is a lie because he had been to high school parties where people drank beer and got together at houses. Obviously, this is not a lie - Kavanaugh admitted to regularly drinking beer, to excess and attending parties. His denial was not to ever attending a get together. His denial was to attending the party Ford said he attended, or anything like it - he has to answer that way, because Ford's accusation is so ridiculously vague that he can't do anything but generally deny it - she doesn't say where it is, when it is, and she's not consistent with who was there or how many people were there. To say that's a lie is simply absurd.

The writer goes on to say that because Kavanaugh attended a July 1 party with OTHER PEOPLE and PJ and Mark Judge, that he must be lying when he says he didn't attend a party like the one alleged by Ford. This is stupid. That party was at night -- the party that Ford alleges was -- as the writer of the article describes - a "pre-party" at someone's house - during the day - and Ford herself says it was early in the day, because she was not at that time allowed to go out later at night - when she said Kavanaugh's parties generally occurred. So, the writer says basically - "Kavanaugh denied going to a party like the one described by Ford, but he did go to other parties, so he's a liar." You don't actually credit that as making sense, do you?

Then he says Kavanaugh lied when he said that Keyser said it didn't happen, because the writer says that Keyser said I don't remember any such party, and I never met Kavanaugh. So, her own statement shows that Kavanaugh is right - if Keyser "never met Kavanaugh" then she couldn't have been at this party Ford describes, because if she was, then she would have met kavanaugh - Ford herself says Kavanaugh and Judge were downstairs talking to the other party goers - PJ, Keyser and the host. So, logically, Keyser could not have been at the party if she never met Kavanaugh. They say that Keyser later said she "believes" Ford's allegations (I assume that means that she was attacked by Kavanaugh), but that doesn't have anything to do with attendance at the party, does it? She believes that Ford was attacked, but it logically was not at a party Keyser was in attendance at because if she was there she would have met Kavanaugh and she unequivocally said she did not.

The next specific lie that is referenced is supposedly Kavanaugh wanting to give the impression that he was not an excessive or rowdy drinker. That's not accurate. Kavanaugh said he wasn't "black out" drunk. He admitted very clearly that he drank a lot in high school, excessively. He simply did not lie about his drinking.

The article posted fails to identify a single false representation.

It's better - instead of just posting links to giant articles and saying here's the proof - if you think he lied, then link to the article but actually type a post about what you think an example or two of the best lies are. He lied when he said X, because [insert reason we know it's a lie]. That article you linked to was long, but did not identify a lie.

I mean - the article says that when he says he may have met Keyser in high school, he must be lying because he should have said, I know of her now, but I don't recall meeting her in high school. the article says he was trying to deceive us, because he said that he remmbers her, but doesn't know where he met her. The writer thinks he's being evasive and trying to avoid a connection with Ford. That's what the writer calls a "lie". According to this writer, Ford can forget almost everything pertinent to the event in question, but Kavanaugh has to remember where he met Leland Keyser, or he's lying.
And I dismiss these unsupported assertions as well. Perhaps you'd be better served by actually providing supporting evidence.

As it is, you offer only "pure, unadulterated bullshit." :funny:
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Re: Kavanaugh hearing

Post by Svartalf » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:09 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:57 pm
I'm wondering why the FBI agents investigating Ms Ford's claims will not be speaking to Ms Ford. Is it because if they gather a statement from Ms Ford then they'll have to gather one from Mr Kavanaugh too, and given the FBI's powers it might be harder for him to dodge questions from an FBI investigator than from a senate committee?
It's not like the FBI had subpoena powers, or that lying to them was lying while under oath...
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