bulletproof schoolbags

[Jason]

I'm afraid that one went over my head.

[Svartalf]

compare the amount of blacks in US population and compare with the amount of blacks in prison population, or compare the stats for alcoholism and drug addiction by racial origin...

[Rum]

Poverty and crime may well be linked, but the sheer number of guns in circulation must contribute to the risks. People cannot after all be trusted to do the right thing all the time.

What, I find myself wondering, to flip the argument, would the effect be of suddenly giving 60% of the population here in the UK guns? Well people would not suddenly decide to go out and start shooting at random (well one or two might as they seem to regularly in America). But you can bet that the overall number of shootings and death by guns would go up over time. Criminals would be more ready to use them. People might resort to them in arguments and all the rest of it. People don't have access to shit and just ignore it.

[laklak]

Imagine closing time in Manchester on a match night.

[JimC]

What's so egregious about "assault rifles?"

They fucking kill people - and loads at a time.

Not much more than a rifle from world war 2. I fail to see the critical distinction. Would you please expand?

Typical rifles from WW2 were bolt action, with around 10 shot magazines. Not ideal for walking into a mall and killing as many people as you can. The semi-automatic rifles that you can easily purchase in the US are modelled on modern infantry weapons, which are designed for killing people efficiently, not hunting game. They have 20 or 30 shot magazines, are relatively light, and very easy to use. For a crazy focused on a mass shooting, they are ideal...

[JimC]

To add to my previous argument, such weapons are the very ones that are banned, and very difficult to obtain in most of Europe and Oz. Sure, there are shotguns and hunting rifles in modest numbers (and fairly stringent controls on ownership), but they are relatively small in number, and not nearly as easy to use for mass shootings. Add to that the huge number of handguns in the US (they too are rare in Oz), and you have a simple factor of wide availability of ideal weapons for killing large numbers of people.

There may be also greater propensities for violence in modern US society than current European or Oz society, whether from Rum's contention about historical factors, or modern day inequalities and racial tensions as Sean suggested. Put the 2 together, plus an intransigent attitude towards gun control, and you have a recipe for many, many unnecessary deaths...

[Seabass]

What's WWII have to do with it anyway? WWII also had Gustavs and Big Berthas. I need one of these babies for home defense.

[laklak]

I'd settle for a 105 howitzer and a dozen LAWS rockets.

[Hermit]

You are correct, I have not read it yet. It is fairly expensive at $40. Do you think you could see clear to sharing your copy with me?

Google is your friend.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/blog/Kleck_Patterson.pdf

Unfortunately it's a PDF, slow to load, but it's the full article.

[Hermit]

What's so egregious about "assault rifles?"

The word "assault" should serve as a bit of a hint. Sure, the version of the AR-15 that the public can buy is not a true assault rifle because it is only semi automatic unless you fit it (legally) with a bump stock, but it is definitely not a sports rifle nor a hunting rifle. In many countries its inhabitants are happy to leave weapons designed to kill humans to soldiers, and smaller weapons designed to kill people, pistols and revolvers, to the police.

[Hermit]

Do you suppose that if guns were to suddenly vanish by some deus ex machina, or whatever, from the United States that the violence would suddenly cease?

Have you ever heard anyone argue that?

Don't you think banning assault style rifles and side arms might be worthwhile if it saves the lives of, say, 2000 of the 11,000 (2016 figure) American citizens that are killed by firearms and another few thousand of the 27,000 who commit suicide by firearm every year?

[Hermit]

So... you are willing to admit that guns are not the cause of the violence that kills so many?

Guns are not the cause of violence. They are the reason why so many are killed, though.

[Hermit]

Of course they are not the cause, they are the means... ease of procuring the means simply facilitates the violence happening.

Then the proper path to ending the violence is not the confiscation of firearms, but the pursuit of the root cause of the violence. Yes?

Like the proper path to reduce road fatalities is not to force them to wear safety belts, but the pursuit of the root cause of the road fatalities?

[Hermit]

Imagine closing time in Manchester on a match night.

...with Glock 26s.

[Jason]

What's so egregious about "assault rifles?"

They fucking kill people - and loads at a time.

Not much more than a rifle from world war 2. I fail to see the critical distinction. Would you please expand?

Typical rifles from WW2 were bolt action, with around 10 shot magazines.

M1 Garand was a very common rifle and it was semi-automatic with an 8 round magazine. It could be reloaded very quickly and put down a solid base of fire.

There were also the SVT-40 and the Gewehr 43. Both semi-automatics.