The Intelligence Community - Champion of Democracy

[pErvinalia]

They could upgrade their bios* too while they're at it..


*constitution

[Hermit]

They could upgrade their bios* too while they're at it..


*constitution

A definite possibility. In fact, they've done it many times in the past. They even have a name for it: Amendment.

[Forty Two]

What the fuck is this shit? Are you into this "Qanon" crap Quatro Deux? What the hell is wrong with this country?

Never heard of it. I have no idea what conspiracy they are into. I'm not big on conspiracy theories, from Kennedy Assassination, to 911, to Birther, to Trump Collusion, I like to have evidence, not just "connecting dots and curious circumstances." Looks to me like Oswald shot Kennedy, Al Qaeta did 9/11, Obama was born in Hawaii, and Trump ran for President without coordinating with Russia. If anyone wants to present "evidence" to the contrary, and not unsupported theories about grassy knolls, thermite/steel melting, Kenya/Indonesia, or collusion, I'm all ears.

LOL, I just googled it. Apparently, they theorize that Kim Jong Un is a CIA installed puppet. Nice. I hope so! But, it doesn't look all that likely. Also, that wouldn't be particularly "pro Trump" to advocate that position. It would mean that Trump has Kim Jong Un in his pocket via the CIA that he now has basic control over via his appointed head of the CIA - he could guarantee himself reelection by getting Kim just to announce he won't develop nukes at all (even if it meant moving US nukes off the peninsula too) -- peace with DPRK would win him the Nobel Peace Prize, and make him uber popular.

Sounds like a crock of shit.

[Seabass]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories

The hell you ain't. The first thing you did when you came back after the Helsinki debacle was create a thread called "The Intelligence Community - Champion of Democracy" in which you endeavored to discredit and vilify the US intelligence community. You may not have actually used the words "deep state" or "QAnon", but you're peddling the same shit.

[Forty Two]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories

The hell you ain't. The first thing you did when you came back after the Helsinki debacle was create a thread called "The Intelligence Community - Champion of Democracy" in which you endeavored to discredit and vilify the US intelligence community. You may not have actually used the words "deep state" or "QAnon", but you're peddling the same shit.

Nonsense, I was mocking the mainstream media's sudden shift from distrusting the CIA and other intelligence agencies for the last 50 years, which have been criticized rightly, and now they daily portray anyone who would dare to question the conclusions of such vaunted agencies as a traitor and un-American.

He'd question the "intelligence community"???? Treasonous! As if US policy is set by the CIA, and if the President says effectively "you know what, I don't really find your intelligence report all that persuasive, so I'm going to make my own policy, thank you very much," it's treason. As if the President has no non-treasonous way to interact with Russia on friendly terms.

You had this lying piece of shit and former communist, John Brennan, declaring the President a traitor? Why? Because he didn't believe the CIA? Horseshit.

It's not a conspiracy theory to say the CIA lies it's ass off. The intelligence community including the CIA has been caught bugging Congressional offices, bugging journalists, leaking confidential information, inventing attacks on the US, participating in the overthrow of the foreign governments, interfering with foreign elections, illegal gun-running, illegal drug trade, and other offenses.

Former CIA director Jim Woolsey admitted it flat out -- the CIA in the past and currently interferes with other countries' elections ...but always for a good cause. I wonder if they were following official US policy at the time? Or, is it "treasonous" to question the CIA's actions and evaluations in regard to which elections to interfere with? The CIA interfered with many elections in Europe, southeast asia, and central america, among others....

How dare one "question our own intelligence agencies...." lol.

[Seabass]

Yeah, everyone's lying except Trump. Our intelligence agencies are lying. Our allies' intelligence agencies are lying. Our law enforcement agencies are lying. The press is lying. The Trump kids were lying when they said they got most of their money from Russia. The numerous indictments and guilty pleas obtained by the special counsel are fake. Trump has been trying to stymie the investigation because he's totally innocent. Trump prostrates himself before Putin because Putin has dreamy eyes.

Christ almighty, you are capable of feats of denial that I hitherto would have thought impossible. When your number's up, please have your brain donated to science so that they might try to find a cure for whatever it is that's wrong with you.

[L'Emmerdeur]

To focus on the CIA as if it were the only agency behind the intelligence evaluations that have been made public is to create a false narrative. The entire US intelligence community agreed with those evaluations. If they are lies, then there really is a conspiracy; a conspiracy that includes the entire US intelligence community as well as a number of powerful elements of the US government that oversee them. Hmm, I wonder why that sounds familiar?

[Forty Two]

Yeah, everyone's lying except Trump.

who said that?

Our intelligence agencies are lying.

They do, often, don't they? But if you're asking are they "lying" about whether Russians engage in propaganda, bought facebook ads, tried to organize rallies, and even tried to hack computers, I've not said anything about disbelieving that. The Russians have been doing that for decades.

But intelligence agencies don't have to be lying to be wrong, but they do often lie.

Our allies' intelligence agencies are lying.

About what? Intelligence agencies feed off of each other. And, again, see above. I've not said I think the Russians aren't up to no good. That's not even really much of a relevant question. The Chinese do all that same stuff. The US intelligence agencies do it to other countries.

Our law enforcement agencies are lying.

Sometimes, yes. Cops aren't always trustworthy. All depends what statement you're talking about. Has one of them said Trump did something illegal?

The press is lying.

I've seen it myself - CNN, Foxnews, MSNBC - they've published rafts of bullshit. They publish a ton of nonsense, biased, and exaggerated stuff. They were on about "collusion" for well over a year.

The Trump kids were lying when they said they got most of their money from Russia.

In 2014, a Golf writer says he had a conversation with Eric Trump about how they were able to get funding for golf courses. He was told they get funding they need from Russian banks. So what? It's not a crime or even suspicious to have financial dealings, business dealings and investments in Russia.

This is the whole Russia frenzy. People do business in Russia. It's fine.

The numerous indictments and guilty pleas obtained by the special counsel are fake.

Not at all. The Manafort indictment isn't fake, it also has nothing to do with wrongdoing by Trump. I don't know if they'll prove a case against him. If he committed a crime, lock him up. None of the indictments even of Russians relate to any wrongdoing on the part of Trump.

Trump has been trying to stymie the investigation because he's totally innocent.

What do you think the intelligence agencies and law enforcement have said or allege that he's guilty of or "not innocent" of?

He hasn't stymied anything. He said he wants it to end. He said it's a witch hunt, but there is not a single thing he's actually done to try to stymie an investigation. He's waived attorney client privilege to allow people to listen to audio between him and his attorney, and he has turned over millions of pages of documents and has not failed to comply with any requests for information, unlike certain other people...

Trump prostrates himself before Putin because Putin has dreamy eyes.

That's the spin, of course.

Christ almighty, you are capable of feats of denial that I hitherto would have thought impossible. When your number's up, please have your brain donated to science so that they might try to find a cure for whatever it is that's wrong with you.

What's the evidence of what he's not innocent of? What have you been shown that proves something?

[pErvinalia]

What's your (conspiracy) theory for why the intelligence agencies are allegedly lying?

[Seabass]

I'm not big on conspiracy theories

[pErvinalia]

Is Shep Smith the token sane person at Fox News?

[Seabass]

Yes. He's also openly gay. It's amazing he still works there.

[Forty Two]

To focus on the CIA as if it were the only agency behind the intelligence evaluations that have been made public is to create a false narrative. The entire US intelligence community agreed with those evaluations.

Sure, they agreed that Russia is trying, as they have been for 50 years, to muck about in our country, meddle and interfere, etc. Most of it being propaganda, posting ads, creating rallies, and about two paragraphs regarding attempted hacking of computer systems. Nothing surprising. Nothing to do with Donald Trump - at least - the intelligence agencies have not said there is evidence Trump or his campaign was involved. Have they? Where is the intelligence report where all the agencies agree that Trump conspired? colluded? worked together with? Did something to further the propaganda, ads, rallies or hacks that the Russkies were attempting?

If they are lies,

Depends on what "they" you're talking about. It's not a lie that Russia attempts to fuck with the US, and even attempts to hack.

then there really is a conspiracy; a conspiracy that includes the entire US intelligence community as well as a number of powerful elements of the US government that oversee them. Hmm, I wonder why that sounds familiar?

Look, the CIA and the intelligence community are wrong, often. And, sometimes they lie - they lie to journalists, they lie to Congress, they lie to the American people. They lied to the White House - https://mashable.com/2014/12/09/5-times ... _dFojdjkql

The NSA director lied to Congress about snooping on Americans. James Clapper. That's not a "conspiracy theory" - he lied.

Woolsey said openly that the US interferes in elections all over the world....for a good cause... that's not a conspiracy.

CIA Director John Brennan lied to Congress, says the conservative outlet "The Guardian."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ied-senate The CIA broke into Senate computer files, and then tried to have Senate staff prosecuted. The CIA was spying on whistleblowers and officials dealing with whistleblowers - https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation ... 71052.html

In 2014, the Washington Post said that Obama should fire John Brennan, the lying scumbag - https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/po ... ecc416ccfc - that's no "conspiracy theory" - he lied right to Andrea Mitchell's face, he lied to Congress' face, and he lied to the American people's faces.

NSA kept spying on Americans -- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/ ... 36520.html 10 biggest lies of the NSA - https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/201 ... onal-secur

But, sure, they're above reproach. Accept their reports at face value, without seeing the back up evidence (because, you know, national security, sources, and methods - lions and tigers and bears, o my!).

[pErvinalia]

You are basically saying they are a law unto their own. I.e deep state conspiracy.

[Forty Two]

No... I'm saying they've done a lot of bad shit. Do you dispute that the items I listed are real?

None of what I mentioned about the CIA and the NSA, etc., is controversial. I mean, come on - these agencies have toppled governments, installed dictators, murdered people, caused wars on false pretenses (Vietnam, e.g.), secretly planned invasions (Cuba, e.g.), the CIA orchestrated a secret war in Nicaragua -https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cias- ... ua/5629008 I mean the list goes on and on.

None of this has anything to do with conspiracies or tin foil hat stuff. This is just the facts.

Need more? Ever heard of Radio Free Europe? Operation Mockingbird (CIA recruiting journalists to become propagandists). By the CIA’s own admission, at least 25 organizations and 400 journalists became CIA assets. Mossadegh in Iran? Operation MK-ULTRA? CIA overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala? CIA's instigation of the revolt in Hungary on the promise of US aid coming, which never came (causing 10s of thousands of deaths as a result of the crushing Soviet invasion)? CIA secret war in Laos? CIA installation of Duvalier in Haiti? Bay of Pigs? Dominican Republic (assassinated leader of DR and also overthrew government in a coup)? Ecuador (forced President to resign)? Congo (assassinated President)? Brazil (CIA backed military coup which overthrew government)? Indonesia (cia backed coup overthrew sukarno)? Iran/Contra? Chile?

This is not a conspiracy theory.