Problematic Stuff

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Seabass » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:29 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:14 am
Seabass wrote:Well, what do you know.

Witness claims viral Whataburger attack may have been motivated by racist remarks
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/loca ... -570979179
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A man who said he and his family witnessed an attack at a San Antonio Whataburger Wednesday evening claims it may have been instigated by racist remarks. Others disagree.
Author: Staff
Published: 11:56 AM CDT July 5, 2018
Updated: 6:06 PM CDT July 6, 2018
San Antonio —

Editor's note: An earlier version of this story included quotes from the alleged witness. Those have been removed from this copy due to concerns about the legitimacy of the statements.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SAN ANTONIO -- A man who said he and his family witnessed an attack at the Whataburger at Thousand Oaks and Nacogdoches Wednesday evening claims that it may have been instigated by racist remarks.
The San Antonio Police Department announced late Thursday that 30-year-old Kino Jimenez has been arrested and charged with theft. SAPD says that Jimenez was arrested at his home in Universal City without incident.

RELATED | SAPD releases affidavit in Fourth of July MAGA hat Whataburger attack

A video of the incident that was posted to Facebook Wednesday evening quickly went viral, garnering more than 2 million views in a matter of hours. In the video, a man can be witnessed throwing a drink at a teen and ripping his 'Make America Great Again' hat off before yelling some expletives and heading out the door of the fast-food restaurant.

According to the post, that has since been removed, the incident was unprovoked. But the witness, who has asked to remain anonymous, told KENS 5 they saw the three teens involved in the incident making disparaging comments about minorities.

RELATED | VIRAL VIDEO: Man swipes MAGA hat, attacks teens at Whataburger, Facebook post claims

The man who spoke to KENS 5 requested anonymity after he said his family was receiving death threats for speaking out about what they reportedly witnessed. He said he did not see the attack, but he did see an altercation inside of the Whataburger before deciding to leave with his family as things got heated.

He also claimed during the conversation another man in the restaurant asked the group of teens to stop making such comments. That's when he said he cut dinner short and had his family leave the restaurant before things escalated.

KENS 5 was not able to independently verify the witness statements. The account from this witness remains in contrast with the original post from the alleged victim's mother, who claimed the attack was completely unprovoked.

The incident is captured in the video below. WARNING: This video does contain offensive language.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Meh.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Animavore » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:36 pm

Ah sure: it's only a bit of casual racism. No harm.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Animavore » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:46 pm

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Let's not normalise this shit.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Rum » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:49 pm

It seems that casual and actually not so casual racism is acceptable on this forum these days for sure.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Seabass » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:28 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm
Meh.
Well, it is down to he said/she said, but given everything I know about Trump worshippers, I'm inclined to believe the witnesses over MAGA punks.
But the station reported Friday that a witness overheard the group of teens making racist jokes just moments before Jimenez lashed out at the teen.
“They were talking about, for the Fourth of July, [that] hanging black people from trees would be the perfect party,” the witness told the local station.
https://nypost.com/2018/07/06/teen-in-m ... n-snapped/
Hunter later uploaded a photo of himself on Instagram wearing a MAGA hat and hooded top along with the caption: “HAD A BOMB A** 4th OF JULY! ALTHOUGH MY HAT GOT JACKED BUT ITS ALL GOOD THE LIBTARD THAT TOOK IT CAN HAVE IT.”
http://www.newsweek.com/kino-jimenez-ar ... er-1010802
I mean, look at this little shit. I have very little doubt that this kid was spewing racist shit.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:04 pm


Seabass wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm
Meh.
Well, it is down to he said/she said, but given everything I know about Trump worshippers, I'm inclined to believe the witnesses over MAGA punks.
The 'Anonymous sources' thing aside, I don't need a round of Chinese whispers to justify my condemnation of Trump and his cronies. The Whataburger incident is notable for it's social media traction (and yet this sort of social conflict is probably being played out across the nation every day), but I'm reluctant to condemn or praise one party over the other on the basis of a video snippet and a sketchy third party report. When others hold this kind of thing up as a test of who's side I'm on I tell them that I'm under no obligation to fulfill their definitions - charitably is a far better operating principle I feel, not least because when an action fails the charitably test it remains failed.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:04 pm
Seabass wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:56 pm
Meh.
Well, it is down to he said/she said, but given everything I know about Trump worshippers, I'm inclined to believe the witnesses over MAGA punks.
The 'Anonymous sources' thing aside, I don't need a round of Chinese whispers to justify my condemnation of Trump and his cronies. The Whataburger incident is notable for it's social media traction (and yet this sort of social conflict is probably being played out across the nation every day), but I'm reluctant to condemn or praise one party over the other on the basis of a video snippet and a sketchy third party report. When others hold this kind of thing up as a test of who's side I'm on I tell them that I'm under no obligation to fulfill their definitions - charitably is a far better operating principle I feel, not least because when an action fails the charitably test it remains failed.
I tend to agree with your position on this Brian. If the little shit with the hat was mouthing off to the douchebag who took the hat, then we can all understand how verbal slights and insults can escalate into physical confrontation.

As a matter of the law, though, if the kids were having an unsavory or racist conversation - making jokes based on race or using racist lingo -- whatever - it is not legal justification to take the hat or throw a drink on someone's face. Hence the douchebag's arrest at some point after the incident. Even if the little shit was joking about lynching black people, the legally acceptable response is to respond with words, or to ignore the little shit.

It's similar to when someone gets confronted in a restaurant, or cursed out by a sushi chef, by those who may hate shitbag A, B or C. It would not be legally acceptable for the shitbags to attack the folks who are speaking using offensive verbiage.

For me, it comes down along the lines of how I raise my kids. Sometimes, other kids say or do things that upset us. Sometimes, they may even say mean things. But, we don't control what other people say, and what they say is not something we ought to take personally. It's about them, not us. It's not acceptable to hit someone or throw things at them or take their stuff because they say something we don't like, or that is "bad." Being able to step back from what other people think and say, and to be strong enough to coexist with people who think and say bad things, is one of the first steps to maturity.

This is also one of those areas that it behooves us to apply the shoe on the other foot test. If roles were reversed, and someone was sitting in the booth with a Nation of Islam symbol on his hit, and he started talking about clearing whitey out of the country, would that warrant someone taking the hat and throwing a drink in the guy's face? To me, no. The Nation of Islam guy would be a racist little shit, sure, but so be it. It's a free country.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 pm

I guess, but what if the little shit or the nation of Islam guy is your co-worker, or your line manager, or your employer, or your bank manager, or your community police officer, or your mayor, or your congressman, or your president? What does stepping back and saying its a free country achieve (other granting little shits the right to be little shits)? I suppose in the end it all depends on whether you're the target of the vicitimisation or not?

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Seabass » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:49 am

This is what you vote for when you vote Republican. Superstitious fucking troglodytes.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:30 am

overturning Roe vs Wade...that's been their obsession for the last 45 years, and with the roberts court now featuring kavanaugh, they can get it...
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:45 am

You can hear the whole thing creaking can't you?

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Seabass » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:30 am

Why, this isn't fascistic at all! Comparisons of the Trump GOP to Nazis are outlandish exaggerations! Until the US under Trump starts gassing Jews, all such comparisons are totally invalid and unwarranted!
Antifa Activists Are Freaking Out About a Proposed 'Unmasking' Law
The bill targets antifascist and anarchist protesters who use "black bloc" tactics to challenge the alt-right.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjb8 ... asking-law

Last month, while the federal government was still pursuing felony riot charges against some Trump inauguration protestors, US Congressman Daniel M. Donovan opened a new front in the battle against radical left-wing protest in America. That's when the Republican, who represents parts of South Brooklyn and the cop haven that is Staten Island, introduced a bill to the House of Representatives called H.R. 6054. The proposed law would enhance penalties for anyone who interferes with another person's "protected rights" while wearing a disguise. After news of the bill made its way onto some subreddits on Tuesday, it spread across Twitter, causing a fair number of activists across America to exert a collective: "What the fuck?"

After all, it's pretty clear whom something called the "Unmasking Antifa Act of 2018" is meant to target.

"H.R. 6054 takes a pro-fascist stance in its very name, and doubtlessly in its enforcement," Carmichael Monaco, a member of the Metropolitan Anarchist Coordinating Council, a New York City-based activist group, told me Tuesday. "In the current political climate, antifascists who speak out against fascism, racism, xenophobia, etc. are routinely harassed, threatened, and attacked by the far right, often supported by the police, who are notably exempted here. Families and friends of antifascists also become targets of far right violence. The wearing of a mask is an act of self-defense often necessary to ensure one's right to free speech." (We reached out to Donovan's office for comment on the bill and will update if we hear back.)

Unmasking laws are not a recent invention, and in fact, it's technically been illegal to wear a mask in Donavan's home state of New York alongside at least one other mask-wearer since 1845. That's when tenant farmers donned calico gowns and feather masks in an uprising against their landlords who were trying to evict them. According to the Wall Street Journal, these rebels tarred and feathered people and even murdered a sheriff. Later, unmasking laws would be used to combat the Ku Klux Klan in states like Alabama, where it's been illegal to wear a mask outside of certain holidays since 1949. Georgia also has an anti-masking law designed to protect against the Klan.

That rarely applied 1845 New York state law was cited as basis for arresting some masked Occupy Wall Street protestors in 2011. But the new and worrying trend here for people like Monaco is the strategy of repurposing a tactic meant to fight racists for the arrest of people on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum. This isn't just speculation: In August 2017, an Arizona lawmaker said he wanted to use unmasking laws to go after Antifa protestors by explicitly comparing them to the KKK.

"The thugs wearing masks and throwing things at police officers and breaking windows and robbing and pillaging while wearing masks and hoods are the equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan," state representative Jay Lawrence told the Arizona Capitol Times. “Now, there are no hangings of white people, yet.”

The bill stipulates that if someone is engaged in an act of property destruction while wearing a mask, they will have two years added to whatever terms of imprisonment they receive. Meanwhile, the maximum additional penalty they would receive for any other crime—or just "oppressing or "intimidating" someone enjoying their constitutional rights—is 15 years.

Mark Bray, a professor at Dartmouth who studies human rights and radical politics and wrote a history of the antifa movement, said the general sentiment among people he'd spoken to about H.R.6054 so far was that it was using "antifa" as a selling point; a lot of people don't understand what the movement really is. "It's a law that threatens to clamp down on direct action politics more broadly," he told me. "I think it sets a disturbing precedent."

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjb8 ... asking-law
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 am

antifa are far left violent hooligans hardly better than those they fight, if better at all.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:32 am

Bullshit false equivalency is bullshit.
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