Who the hell do the Yanks think they are?

[mistermack]

America seems to have the attitude that the rest of the world MUST do as they say.

It's there in virtually everything they do.

The latest is the Iran mess. Trump decides to pull out of the Iran deal. No problem, go ahead. BUT, he also intends to sanction any company that trades with Iran.
Who the fuck gave him the right to say who can and can't trade with Iran?

The only option left to the rest of the world, is to either stop trading because the bully boy said so, or impose sanctions on US firms in retaliation for any sanctions imposed on their own firms.
There is no real hope that the EU or UK will have the balls to do that.
China will just cheat their way around it, using proxy companies, and carry on trading with Iran.

In any case, the US can't win a trade war with China any more. They owe them too much money.
I'm looking forward to the day when China are bigger and stronger than the US. It will be a real blow to their inflated ego, and it's gradually happening already.

[cronus]

Chinese are cruel to animals, burn dogs alive for the taste. It's only a mall step from animal cruelty to full on sociopathy like Canadians clubbing seals to death. Or Chinese clubbing US seals to death. America is strong because it got a militarily advantage. And the Chinese are only playing nice because they ain't number one. Watch them change the day they put the ring of power on....old masters and new. Animals will go extinct faster, climate change will get worse....and you'll be missing the Yanks.

[Animavore]

The Chinese are going through a green revolution. They recently cancelled all future coal plants. They are members of the Paris Accord.

Only the US is going backwards on this, led as they are by a myopic fuckwit with no vision for the future of the planet. Only for his decrepit bloodline.

The Chinese look set to become the World's leading energy superpower. I'd much rather the Chinese than the US right now.

In fact; we should probably invade America, topple their government, and install our own puppet leader who is conducive to our way of life.

[Rum]

I would be interested to hear from some of our Merican members what the States are doing about climate change (as opposed to the Federal Govt). From what I read many of them are going full steam ahead with alternative energy production and ignoring Trump's pronouncements.

As to China - they are ever the pragmatists and they see the writing on the wall and what is more appreciate the science behind climate analysis, unencumbered by the likes of Big Coal and Oil - and the other industries which sponsor American politicians. What is more they have the ability to make long term plans without worrying about elections leading to changes in policy - which is what we are seeing in the USA.

China has some things going against it though. They are at the end of the day a totalitarian state. They may not appear to be but you really can't step out of line or speak your mind there. That limits them in many ways. And the other thing is that the huge bureaucracy there makes it slow to respond - the other side of the long term planning advantage.

[pErvinalia]

America seems to have the attitude that the rest of the world MUST do as they say.

Have you only just woken up to this state of affairs now? This isn't news.

I'm looking forward to the day when China are bigger and stronger than the US. It will be a real blow to their inflated ego, and it's gradually happening already.

China (and Russia) is way more brazen than the US. The US is a fucking world nightmare, but I'm pretty sure when China is the big dog we'll be harking for the days of US dominance. Although, China has a much greater hope of leading us out of climate catastrophe than the US.

[Sean Hayden]

I would be interested to hear from some of our Merican members what the States are doing about climate change (as opposed to the Federal Govt). From what I read many of them are going full steam ahead with alternative energy production and ignoring Trump's pronouncements.

As to China - they are ever the pragmatists and they see the writing on the wall and what is more appreciate the science behind climate analysis, unencumbered by the likes of Big Coal and Oil - and the other industries which sponsor American politicians. What is more they have the ability to make long term plans without worrying about elections leading to changes in policy - which is what we are seeing in the USA.

China has some things going against it though. They are at the end of the day a totalitarian state. They may not appear to be but you really can't step out of line or speak your mind there. That limits them in many ways. And the other thing is that the huge bureaucracy there makes it slow to respond - the other side of the long term planning advantage.

Yep, Texas is still leading the country in wind energy development. Solar is picking up in places too, naturally.

It'll be nice when the US isn't top dog anymore, it'll take the target off our back and maybe allow us to get a better view of ourselves too.

[laklak]

We can then concentrate on important things, like making sure all kids get a Micky D's at least once a week.

[Animavore]

A missed opportunity to say "wind is picking up."

[Hermit]

There's nothing wrong with the yanks that is not also wrong with anyone else. It's the deplorables south of the Mason-Dixon lines that are a worry. Worst of all are the denizens of Florida. Bottomfeeding scumbags, all. Um, let me hastily clarify: all, except for those who are also members of this forum.

Happy with that, Forty Two, you bottomfeeding scumbag extraordinaire?

And Crumple is correct in a way; When a nation becomes the supreme power on the planet it will do whatever it bloody well likes simply because it can. Look at the opium wars. Things go awry, though, when a nation is not as powerful as it thinks it is. Germany needed two lessons to learn from that.

[Rum]

There's a name for it: 'hubris' -and I saw the tale end of it as it applied to the British Empire when as a kid we sailed from Southampton to Hong Kong via the old empire sea route through the Med to Egypt, down the canal, over to the Indian subcontinent and on to the far East - all of it 'red' on the map until the 1950s and 60s. The astonishing rapidity of the withering of the empire aside, the dregs of British entitlement, arrogance, imperial power and the casual disregard for local culture and customs was everywhere. I had some sense of it even as a kid and only later realised what it was all about.

We learnt how to be humble the hard way - though I guess it could have been worse. The Romans were after all pretty much ground into the dust - in the west anyway.

[JimC]

mistermack wrote:

...The latest is the Iran mess. Trump decides to pull out of the Iran deal. No problem, go ahead. BUT, he also intends to sanction any company that trades with Iran.
Who the fuck gave him the right to say who can and can't trade with Iran?

The only option left to the rest of the world, is to either stop trading because the bully boy said so, or impose sanctions on US firms in retaliation for any sanctions imposed on their own firms.
There is no real hope that the EU or UK will have the balls to do that. ..

This is the nub of the argument, to me; it defines perfectly the arrogance of the US (or at least its current administration). I'm hoping that there enough clever officials in the rest of the world community who can find ways, covert if necessary, to minimise the economic impact on Iran, allowing them to preserve the nuclear deal. It goes without saying this must include a rigorous inspection regime; from what I've read, the international monitoring team is happy with Iranian compliance, it's only the yanks who have their knickers in a knot...

[Animavore]

mistermack wrote:

...The latest is the Iran mess. Trump decides to pull out of the Iran deal. No problem, go ahead. BUT, he also intends to sanction any company that trades with Iran.
Who the fuck gave him the right to say who can and can't trade with Iran?

The only option left to the rest of the world, is to either stop trading because the bully boy said so, or impose sanctions on US firms in retaliation for any sanctions imposed on their own firms.
There is no real hope that the EU or UK will have the balls to do that. ..

This is the nub of the argument, to me; it defines perfectly the arrogance of the US (or at least its current administration). I'm hoping that there enough clever officials in the rest of the world community who can find ways, covert if necessary, to minimise the economic impact on Iran, allowing them to preserve the nuclear deal. It goes without saying this must include a rigorous inspection regime; from what I've read, the international monitoring team is happy with Iranian compliance, it's only the yanks Trump who have their knickers in a knot...

[mistermack]

They've done the same thing with Cuba for decades. Got their asses kicked at the Bay of Pigs, and never got over it.
Funnily enough, they seem to have got over the defeat by Vietnam a lot quicker. Probably because they see Vietnam as some slight counterbalance to China.

They certainly got their noses put out of Joint over Crimea.

I can't see any way that the Iran agreement can be saved. Iran was holding to it's side of the deal, but the west was not living up to it's own side, as it was. With the US sanctions in place, there's really nothing left in it for Iran.

Iran will probably have to restart it's nuclear program and kick out the observers. They have every right to.

[cronus]

They've done the same thing with Cuba for decades. Got their asses kicked at the Bay of Pigs, and never got over it.
Funnily enough, they seem to have got over the defeat by Vietnam a lot quicker. Probably because they see Vietnam as some slight counterbalance to China.

They certainly got their noses put out of Joint over Crimea.

I can't see any way that the Iran agreement can be saved. Iran was holding to it's side of the deal, but the west was not living up to it's own side, as it was. With the US sanctions in place, there's really nothing left in it for Iran.

Iran will probably have to restart it's nuclear program and kick out the observers. They have every right to.

Exactly the excuse Trump needs to become a war president. Could say, with a new election brewing in a couple of years, all part of a cunning plan to gain Thatcher's sort of war premier second term? That's gonna mean total obliteration for Iran, gotta be devastation and shock'n'awe eye candy.

[mistermack]

The only thing is, this time the US would be on it's own.
They always try to get other countries on board when they start a war. I can't see how anyone else would join in a war that was so blatantly constructed by Trump.

The EU and Britain have all publicly endorsed keeping the deal. How could they join in such a rush to war?
The deal is, you give up your right to develop nukes, and we keep to what's agreed.
If we break our side, they have a perfect right to develop nukes.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive, but even I can't see them acting the obedient doggie for Trump to that extent.

And why the fuck do the media NEVER EVER mention Israel's nukes, in connection to the Iran question?
It just shows who is really in charge of what we see and hear.