UK Tory/gummint dramaz!

[pErvinalia]

Huh?

[Scot Dutchy]

Well answer the question: What are your perceived negatives?

[rainbow]

Twatcherism.

That would be negative.

[pErvinalia]

I've already told you the negatives before. Weakening privacy, uneccesary, and handing government a radical amount of power over its citizens. All governments are corrupt, to varying degrees, and should be given the minimal amount of power to maintain a functioning liberal society. Knowing the location of everyone when there's no real need for it, is not necessary for those goals.

[Scot Dutchy]

I've already told you the negatives before. Weakening privacy, uneccesary, and handing government a radical amount of power over its citizens. All governments are corrupt, to varying degrees, and should be given the minimal amount of power to maintain a functioning liberal society. Knowing the location of everyone when there's no real need for it, is not necessary for those goals.

Weakening privacy? Please explain.
Unnecessary? It is not necessary to you to know where your citizens are living? How do you plan anything? I suppose the complete chaos I saw in Queensland there was not much planning made. Just how is registering your place of bode going to give the government power?
Radical amount of power over its citizens? What are you on about? Everybody is willing to give their soul to a private company openly but to government? Please dont judge our governments against yours.

Basically of course it comes down to culture. You have never trusted your governments because of the corruption that takes place.
We relied on the government to organise an create a supporting body for society. We had to recover from massive war destruction and you dont do that by building fences. You do it by cooperation and organisation. All major countries in Europe have a registration system. So are they all wrong?
You probably hate paying taxes and are against social services. You are a sprawling country with a strong Anglo-Saxon sense of ownership. "This my land".

[pErvinalia]

Take your pills. You've forgotten who you are talking to. Along with Hermit I'm probably the leftist person on this forum. Far more left than you. The idea that I hate paying taxes and are against social services is Seth levels of retardation. You can do better than that.

Government's are corrupt. Yours too. I've told you all this before. We use the 4 yearly census to work this stuff out. Demographics don't change much, if at all in a four year period. Requiring citizens to register their whereabouts with government for no proper reason is authoritarianism.

[Scot Dutchy]

Well if you are the leftist person here (which I very much doubt) then why do you object to planning and organisation which is what it is. You seem to have a non-logical fear of government. By knowing where you live (which it probably does already) what do you think it is going to do to you? Do you have a citizens number?

[pErvinalia]

No we don't have a citizen number. That's authoritarian. We plan and organise the same way you do. We just use a four-yearly data collection instead of an intrusive and authoritarian live data regime. To get certain services you do need to provide an address, but the exact address isn't really relevant, only the region. So for car registration it's only the particular state that really matters. For welfare it's more like a local council region (which in Australia is probably the size of a tiny dot like the Netherregions). The government has no business knowing your exact address. That's an invasion of privacy and giving too much power to an institution that continually throughout history abuses its power and responsibilities. And comparing that to, say, facebook, which is a voluntary association, and a company not a fucking legislative and security body, is utterly asinine.

[pErvinalia]

What's ironic is that in another thread you are promoting the conservative line that we are all inherently selfish and greedy, yet here you all of a sudden trust a government full of selfish and greedy people to have your best interests in mind. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

[Scot Dutchy]

Your have a problem. You are not leftist by any measure. You are paranoid about your government. Completely illogical. We dont have the type of government you have. Any socialist would see the need for organisation.

I would like to know what powers do you perceive it gives government over you? I just cant envisage them.

[Scot Dutchy]

What's ironic is that in another thread you are promoting the conservative line that we are all inherently selfish and greedy, yet here you all of a sudden trust a government full of selfish and greedy people to have your best interests in mind. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Who is promoting it? Your non-logic is terrible. Can you prove our government is full of selfish and greedy people? Have you any idea how a government so completely different to your own works?
You want to get down from your Anglo-Saxon high horse. Australia is far from being the bees' knees.

[pErvinalia]

Your have a problem. You are not leftist by any measure. You are paranoid about your government. Completely illogical. We dont have the type of government you have.

Bullshit. All governments are corrupt to varying degrees. You are being naive if you think otherwise.

Any socialist would see the need for organisation.

I'm not a socialist, and neither are you. Ideologically I am an anarchist, and pragmatically I am a social democrat. Which is what you are too. Caution about authoritarian structures is very at home on the left. The anarchist left. And they are right to be cautious. Look at what the socialists got up to in USSR et al. This is where giving uncritical trust to government gets you.

I would like to know what powers do you perceive it gives government over you? I just cant envisage them.

If the government one day decides that identified environmentalists are a threat to a free market capitalist society, then they know your address and can persecute millions without even having to work for it.

[pErvinalia]

What's ironic is that in another thread you are promoting the conservative line that we are all inherently selfish and greedy, yet here you all of a sudden trust a government full of selfish and greedy people to have your best interests in mind. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Who is promoting it? Your non-logic is terrible. Can you prove our government is full of selfish and greedy people? Have you any idea how a government so completely different to your own works?
You want to get down from your Anglo-Saxon high horse. Australia is far from being the bees' knees.

Why would I have to prove what you yourself have said. You said humans are inherently selfish and greedy. Explain the "logic" how everyone is selfish and greedy, but not everyone is selfish and greedy.

[Scot Dutchy]

You have once again totally failed to answer the question.

Your:

f the government one day decides that identified environmentalists are a threat to a free market capitalist society, then they know your address and can persecute millions without even having to work for it.

Do you think they cant do that already? You are being naive. Is that all you can come up with? So registration is fine so long you are not a threat to the government? Sorry so the Australian government has not got a clue who is a threat to Australia. Please that is just laughable even in Australian terms. What do you think our government keeps on me that the Australian government does not keep on you? We have very strict privacy laws.

[pErvinalia]

If you want to live with authoritarianist practices, then good for you. But it's totally uneccesary, and is illogical given your stated belief that everyone is inherently selfish and greedy.