Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

[pErvinalia]

Profit motive is concerned with maximising profit. Greed is a desire for something in excess of what you need.

[Forty Two]

Profit motive is merely the desire for financial gain as an incentive for economic activity. I.e., people do things because they gain by doing it. If doing something only causes you to be where you were before you did it, why would you do it?

Having to work for only what you need has a name. Can you guess what that is?

[pErvinalia]

It doesn't matter what the name is for working for only what you need. It's irrelevant to whether the profit motive inherent in capitalism is pretty much definitionally greed. And I provided definitions of both profit motive and greed. Do I really need to provide links for them?

[Forty Two]

Well, it's not "pretty much definitionally" greed.

Greed is excessive or rapacious desire for something. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/greed?s=t That's not "profit motive."

Profit motive: The desire for the pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction that motivates one to engage in business. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/profit-motive?s=t and http://www.dictionary.com/browse/profit?s=t

There is nothing "excessive or rapacious" in desire for pecuniary gain resulting from employment of capital in a transaction.

You appear to be trying to confuse a thing that are excessive/rapacious with something that is not that.

If a person buys three houses at $100,000 each, and the market value of one goes down in to $80,000 and the market values of other two go up in price to $200,000, and he sells them all for $480,000, realizing a $180,000 gross profit, is that person "greedy?" What must he do in order not to be greedy?

[pErvinalia]

First hit in google, first sentence:

In economics, the profit motive is the motivation of firms that operate so as to maximize their profits.

But please, do carry on.

[Forty Two]

You said, "I provided definitions of both profit motive and greed. Do I really need to provide links for them?" --

Definitions. I provided you with the links for the dictionary definitions for them. But, o.k., now you want to link to wikipedia.

Anyway - "maximize" does not mean "excessive or rapacious desire" which is an element of "greed." One maximizes their profit by charging the price that results in maximizing the return - so that may be a low price, which ultimately results in greater sales, and hence a greater profit.

The reference to profit maximization in your wiki article makes no reference to greed, makes no reference to rapaciousness or excessiveness. Instead, it embeds a link to this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_maximization which discusses mainstream microeconomics, and also makes no reference to greed, rapaciouness nor excessiveness.

Even the wiki article you quoted does not equate them. It notes that a "common criticism of the profit motive is that it is believed to encourage selfishness and greed." So, it is not selfishness and greed. It is "believed to encourage" selfishness and greed, by critics.

The article you quoted from also presents the rebuttal to that criticism - "Free-market economists argue that the profit motive, coupled with competition, actually reduces the final price of an item for consumption, rather than raising it. They argue that businesses profit by selling a good at a lower price and at a greater volume than the competition. Economist Thomas Sowell uses supermarkets as an example to illustrate this point: “It has been estimated that a supermarket makes a clear profit of about a penny on a dollar of sales. If that sounds pretty skimpy, remember that it is collecting that penny on every dollar at several cash registers simultaneously and, in many cases, around the clock.”

And, of course, as Milton Friedman, “The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests.” [and that] only in capitalist countries, where individuals can pursue their own self-interest, people have been able to escape from “grinding poverty.”"

So, while greedy people certainly purue their self-interest and profit motive, greed is not the same thing as self-interest or profit motive.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not impressed. You could have written at least two hundred more words in trying to deny that capitalism involves greed.

[Forty Two]

Oh, now you want to change the discussion to "does capitalism involve greed?" Well, of course it does. As does communism. Some people are greedy; all economic systems involve greed.

But what we were talking about before was whether profit motive and greed are definitionally the same thing. They aren't. Even the wikipedia article you quoted from (but did not link) explained that greed and profit motive are not the same thing.

[pErvinalia]

Oh, now you want to change the discussion to "does capitalism involve greed?" Well, of course it does.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 5#p1763138

But what we were talking about before was whether profit motive and greed are definitionally the same thing. They aren't. Even the wikipedia article you quoted from (but did not link) explained that greed and profit motive are not the same thing.

I didn't say they were the same thing. Could you get any more random than this post you just made?

[Forty Two]

Oh, now you want to change the discussion to "does capitalism involve greed?" Well, of course it does.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 5#p1763138

Indeed Dutchy said, "Capitalism never had good intentions. It was a name for pure greed at all cost." Obviously, it is not the name for pure greed at all costs. I responded to that, correctly, that Capitalism is not pure greed at all costs.

And, you snipped my comment above, as you are wont to do - I said "well, of course it does" and followed up to explain that some people are greedy and therefore any economic systems "involves" greed. Saying that it "involves" greed is a completely different assertion than saying what Dutchy said, and completely different from saying what you said (which that greed and profit motive were definitionally the same thing, which they are not, and which your own citation demonstrated).

But what we were talking about before was whether profit motive and greed are definitionally the same thing. They aren't. Even the wikipedia article you quoted from (but did not link) explained that greed and profit motive are not the same thing.

I didn't say they were the same thing. Could you get any more random than this post you just made?

So, by saying that profit motive and greed were pretty much definitionally the same thing, you weren't in the least suggesting that the terms were pretty much the same thing, definitionally. LOL
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... w#p1763150

[pErvinalia]

Oh, now you want to change the discussion to "does capitalism involve greed?" Well, of course it does.

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 5#p1763138

Indeed Dutchy said, "Capitalism never had good intentions. It was a name for pure greed at all cost." Obviously, it is not the name for pure greed at all costs. I responded to that, correctly, that Capitalism is not pure greed at all costs.

And, you snipped my comment above, as you are wont to do - I said "well, of course it does" and followed up to explain that some people are greedy and therefore any economic systems "involves" greed.

I'm talking about the ideology, not random people.

But what we were talking about before was whether profit motive and greed are definitionally the same thing. They aren't. Even the wikipedia article you quoted from (but did not link) explained that greed and profit motive are not the same thing.

I didn't say they were the same thing. Could you get any more random than this post you just made?

So, by saying that profit motive and greed were pretty much definitionally the same thing, you weren't in the least suggesting that the terms were pretty much the same thing, definitionally. LOL
http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... w#p1763150

You really are a piece of work. Surely even you, with your limited understanding of the English language, can see that "pretty much the same thing" =/= "the same thing".

[Forty Two]

Exactly as I thought you'd respond.

So, then we agree, yes Capitalism is not the same thing as greed at all costs, and you also agree that profit motive and greed are not definitionally the same thing. Am I right about that? Or do you disagree?

Also, do you agree that "profit motive" is as defined in the wikipedia article you quoted?

And, do you agree that maximizing profit is not the same thing as greed?

Clear, straight answers, instead of your usual bullshit would be most appreciated.

[pErvinalia]

Exactly as I thought you'd respond.

So, then we agree, yes Capitalism is not the same thing as greed at all costs, and you also agree that profit motive and greed are not definitionally the same thing. Am I right about that? Or do you disagree?

Only you could present an interpretation as daft as that. I've been perfectly clear in what i've said. That you apparently can't understand simple English and the flow of the thread, isn't my problem.

Also, do you agree that "profit motive" is as defined in the wikipedia article you quoted?

And, do you agree that maximizing profit is not the same thing as greed?

Clear, straight answers, instead of your usual bullshit would be most appreciated.

The profit motive is one of the most, if not THE most, important features of capitalism. It underpins the whole market dynamics which drive capitalism. Capitalists don't seek to make just a little bit of profit. They seek to maximise their profits, as the definition that I provided clearly and unequivocally states. In fact, in most capitalist jurisdictions, there is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT for corporations to maximise profits. Greed is defined by the top hit in google, which was as I stated above. Only you could argue that maximising profits and a desire for excess aren't strikingly similar.

But please, do go on for another 6000 words equivocating.

[Forty Two]

Is greed defined as the excessive or rapacious desire for something (whether money or something else)?

Is maximizing profits the same thing as "excessive or rapacious desire" for something?

The answers, of cousre, are no and yes respectively, and therefore neither profit motive nor the maximization of profit are the same thing as greed.

Do you agree?

[pErvinalia]

http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... d#p1763232