Active shooter?

[Scot Dutchy]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

Exactly. Just going out of your front door and wondering: "Will I make it to the shops and back?".

[Joe]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

Exactly. Just going out of your front door and wondering: "Will I make it to the shops and back?".

I worry less about someone deliberately opening fire than I do an accidental discharge. I generally don't see what kind of holster a concealed carry permit holder has, or even notice those people, but the open carry folks range from secure, well fitted holsters, to tucked into the waistband of their pants and everywhere in between.

I guess I should avoid public restrooms.

Americans Who Carry Concealed Weapons Keep Accidentally Shooting Themselves in Public Bathrooms

Last year, CityLab took a brief look at the disturbingly high number of accidental firearm discharges that take place in public bathrooms across the United States. There were reports of accidental gunfire in bathrooms at a Walmart, a hotel, a grocery store, an Internet cafe, and a Carl's Jr. (The roundup somehow missed this one at an Irish pub in Florida.) In most cases, the self-inflicted victims were pulling up or lowering their pants when their concealed weapon fell out, hit the floor, and fired.

They don't always shoot themselves either.

[mistermack]

The only good thing about open carrying guns is that you can tell the pathetic loonies at a glance.

They might as well have a loony sign on their foreheads. It doesn't make them harmless though.

[Sean Hayden]

Responsible gun owners don't shit in public bathrooms as it puts them at a tactical disadvantage.

[Forty Two]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

I never entered a McDonald's or other fast food establishment, or restaurant of any kind, and ever thought that someone might open fire. The fear you describe has never entered my mind, and I have never heard a single person my entire life suggest that they harbored that fear. But, what to I know, I just live here, and have lived for extended periods of time in three states, and experienced the same lack of fear in each.

[Forty Two]

You're right about that, but when your activism and protest is a demand for government to restrict people's rights in order to obtain safety, then the government will oblige.

Hmm. I think they just don't want to be shot at in their classrooms, churches, nightclubs, concerts and shopping malls any more. The government is the only authority they can appeal to, isn't it?

Given that homicides in general, shootings, and school shootings are all on the decline, and have been for decades, I would think that there would be perhaps a recognition that greater coverage in the news of these incidents does not mean they are more common. https://mises.org/wire/there-are-fewer- ... ring-1990s

Now, I have small children, so the idea of any child getting shot hits me close to home. I am fiercely protective of my kids. That being said, the numbers don't lie. My guess is that the reason for the decline is greater security at schools. In the 1980s, campuses were largely open, with anyone being able to walk onto school grounds anytime. The public made use of school playgrounds, and sports fields/tracks when not in use. As late as, say 15 or so years ago, I would go to the local high school and run around the track, work out on the bleachers, and play pick-up games of football with others in our town.

That's all gone now. Now the schools are fenced, and it is generally difficult to get into a school, especially when school is in session. That's one of the things that bothers me about the Parkland Florida shooting, the latest one. How did that guy get in the school? With a long gun? How?

Did you watch the video I posted btw? Forget what the gun-lobby meme-factory is pumping out and look at the faces in the crowd, listen to their cheers and their enthusiasm, hear the message behind the rhetoric: "We don't want to live like this any more."

Nobody does, but that's just one faction. I hear what they're saying, and I'm even in favor of lots of types of gun control. However, those same people who cheer and say we don't want to live like this are offering no compromise. They just tend to want wholesale gun bans. That is not going to happen. If they would propose sensible additional gun control measures that people could look at and evaluate, then we could talk. But just yelling and cheering doesn't do anything. And, believing that people who support private gun ownership don't want to stop school shootings is just divisive on the issue. Anytime one side demonizes the other as wanting people to die, discussion is impossible. And that kind of divisiveness comes from both sides of this issue - the pro-gun people often declare even the smallest of gun-regulation suggestions to be tantamount to a wholesale gun-ban, which they are not necessarily. And not everyone who approves of some gun regulation is a communist or a fascist gun-grabber.

People are tired of living with the fear of well-arned random nutters with a grudge, and tired of picking up the pieces when that fear is given a face. These young people don't want a future like that - and they're passionate about it.

Certainly, and when they present a concrete proposal that can be evaluated, I'll evaluate it. If the message is, "we don't want shootings to happen anymore!" I agree, neither do I. What more can I say about their position?

I, myself, have suggested many ways gun control can be enhanced without infringing on the people's right to keep and bear arms. And, I think my ideas would reduce the prevalance of shootings considerably. I haven't heard what David Hogg and his raised-fist outrage have in mind, but if it's "guns will be illegal" they're just not going to get anywhere. No western industrialized country does that. Take Norway, the prime example of a successful social democracy - they have guns all over the place. My relatives go hunting every year. It's part of their culture. But they have some decent gun regulation. It doesn't mean that Anders Brevik is not going to happen again, but they do pretty good.

[mistermack]

People trying to argue that guns are safe are to me like the wankers who buy huge powerful dogs.

They can bang on about how "he's completely harmless" as much as they like. The problem is that the owners are invariably full of shit, so you have to trust the wanker owner AND the dog.

Gun owners are the same. As they're mostly retarded, why the hell would you accept their assurances about safety?

[Joe]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

I never entered a McDonald's or other fast food establishment, or restaurant of any kind, and ever thought that someone might open fire. The fear you describe has never entered my mind, and I have never heard a single person my entire life suggest that they harbored that fear. But, what to I know, I just live here, and have lived for extended periods of time in three states, and experienced the same lack of fear in each.

At McDonald's, I'm more apprehensive about the food.

[Rum]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

I never entered a McDonald's or other fast food establishment, or restaurant of any kind, and ever thought that someone might open fire. The fear you describe has never entered my mind, and I have never heard a single person my entire life suggest that they harbored that fear. But, what to I know, I just live here, and have lived for extended periods of time in three states, and experienced the same lack of fear in each.

Well that probably says two things - one that you live and spend your life in safer places and two - you are immune to the fear because of familiarity with the presence of guns.

My daughter and her ex boyfriend spent a couple of months touring the main National Parks (rental car and camping), two years ago and she said that seeing guns openly on display was frightening and that on a few occasions she felt very vulnerable to something crazy happening.

Here it simply isn't on the menu of possible things that can happen.

[Joe]

Responsible gun owners don't shit in public bathrooms as it puts them at a tactical disadvantage.

Well. maybe Seth, which explains a lot.

[JimC]

Forty Two wrote:

Nobody does, but that's just one faction. I hear what they're saying, and I'm even in favor of lots of types of gun control. However, those same people who cheer and say we don't want to live like this are offering no compromise. They just tend to want wholesale gun bans. That is not going to happen. If they would propose sensible additional gun control measures that people could look at and evaluate, then we could talk. But just yelling and cheering doesn't do anything. And, believing that people who support private gun ownership don't want to stop school shootings is just divisive on the issue. Anytime one side demonizes the other as wanting people to die, discussion is impossible. And that kind of divisiveness comes from both sides of this issue - the pro-gun people often declare even the smallest of gun-regulation suggestions to be tantamount to a wholesale gun-ban, which they are not necessarily. And not everyone who approves of some gun regulation is a communist or a fascist gun-grabber.

The polarisation you describe here, from both sides, is, unfortunately, not something that you guys can hope to eliminate, or work through by rational debate. Everything I've read about recent trends in the US is that the highly charged and emotional political polarisation that exists is not diminishing, but increasing, and becoming thoroughly entrenched. It's not just over gun laws, although they capture the trend very strongly, but in almost all aspects of your political life. I mean, I agree with you that the rational course would be to find some sort of compromise, with more effective regulations on who can own guns etc. but my take is that it is not going to happen.

[Seabass]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

I never entered a McDonald's or other fast food establishment, or restaurant of any kind, and ever thought that someone might open fire. The fear you describe has never entered my mind, and I have never heard a single person my entire life suggest that they harbored that fear. But, what to I know, I just live here, and have lived for extended periods of time in three states, and experienced the same lack of fear in each.

Typical conservative. It doesn't affect you, personally, so there is no problem.

[Seabass]

Forty Two wrote:

Nobody does, but that's just one faction. I hear what they're saying, and I'm even in favor of lots of types of gun control. However, those same people who cheer and say we don't want to live like this are offering no compromise. They just tend to want wholesale gun bans. That is not going to happen. If they would propose sensible additional gun control measures that people could look at and evaluate, then we could talk. But just yelling and cheering doesn't do anything. And, believing that people who support private gun ownership don't want to stop school shootings is just divisive on the issue. Anytime one side demonizes the other as wanting people to die, discussion is impossible. And that kind of divisiveness comes from both sides of this issue - the pro-gun people often declare even the smallest of gun-regulation suggestions to be tantamount to a wholesale gun-ban, which they are not necessarily. And not everyone who approves of some gun regulation is a communist or a fascist gun-grabber.

The polarisation you describe here, from both sides, is, unfortunately, not something that you guys can hope to eliminate, or work through by rational debate. Everything I've read about recent trends in the US is that the highly charged and emotional political polarisation that exists is not diminishing, but increasing, and becoming thoroughly entrenched. It's not just over gun laws, although they capture the trend very strongly, but in almost all aspects of your political life. I mean, I agree with you that the rational course would be to find some sort of compromise, with more effective regulations on who can own guns etc. but my take is that it is not going to happen.

He's full of shit. No one's asking for "wholesale gun bans". Not in any significant numbers, anyway. Our left has been pretty reasonable on this issue. It's the right-wing, 2A absolutist lunatics that are "offering no compromise". As usual, this is not a "both sides" problem. Our right-wingers are fucking bananas.

[Joe]

The thought of sitting in a McDonalds and the possibility that they guy at the next table might open fire at any moment. That must be a fear in the mind of many an American. It must be horrible to live with.

I never entered a McDonald's or other fast food establishment, or restaurant of any kind, and ever thought that someone might open fire. The fear you describe has never entered my mind, and I have never heard a single person my entire life suggest that they harbored that fear. But, what to I know, I just live here, and have lived for extended periods of time in three states, and experienced the same lack of fear in each.

Well that probably says two things - one that you live and spend your life in safer places and two - you are immune to the fear because of familiarity with the presence of guns.

My daughter and her ex boyfriend spent a couple of months touring the main National Parks (rental car and camping), two years ago and she said that seeing guns openly on display was frightening and that on a few occasions she felt very vulnerable to something crazy happening.

Here it simply isn't on the menu of possible things that can happen.

I think there's truth to that. I grew up with guns, and see armed police and security folks regularly. I've lived in an open carry state for 35 years, and while I don't see people carrying guns very often, it's often enough to get used to.

[JimC]

Forty Two wrote:

Nobody does, but that's just one faction. I hear what they're saying, and I'm even in favor of lots of types of gun control. However, those same people who cheer and say we don't want to live like this are offering no compromise. They just tend to want wholesale gun bans. That is not going to happen. If they would propose sensible additional gun control measures that people could look at and evaluate, then we could talk. But just yelling and cheering doesn't do anything. And, believing that people who support private gun ownership don't want to stop school shootings is just divisive on the issue. Anytime one side demonizes the other as wanting people to die, discussion is impossible. And that kind of divisiveness comes from both sides of this issue - the pro-gun people often declare even the smallest of gun-regulation suggestions to be tantamount to a wholesale gun-ban, which they are not necessarily. And not everyone who approves of some gun regulation is a communist or a fascist gun-grabber.

The polarisation you describe here, from both sides, is, unfortunately, not something that you guys can hope to eliminate, or work through by rational debate. Everything I've read about recent trends in the US is that the highly charged and emotional political polarisation that exists is not diminishing, but increasing, and becoming thoroughly entrenched. It's not just over gun laws, although they capture the trend very strongly, but in almost all aspects of your political life. I mean, I agree with you that the rational course would be to find some sort of compromise, with more effective regulations on who can own guns etc. but my take is that it is not going to happen.

He's full of shit. No one's asking for "wholesale gun bans". Not in any significant numbers, anyway. Our left has been pretty reasonable on this issue. It's the right-wing, 2A absolutist lunatics that are "offering no compromise". As usual, this is not a "both sides" problem. Our right-wingers are fucking bananas.

I'm not so sure about this. I've certain seen plenty of media reports showing the recent anti-gun activists, and they do seem to be pushing a "ban the AR-15" rhetoric pretty strongly...

(mind you, I support that too, but there's simply no way anything other than perhaps a tightening of background checks will ever come to pass...)