Scientific Proof Of God

[Rum]

But in yt video he says those forces are too weak and too poorly organized to mount an effective offensive against the capitalist system. What "force" or "forces" does he say can overthrow capitalism?

Basically he suggests that human kind need to switch from the 'pleasure principle' to the 'reality principle'. What he actually means by that is not something to be gleaned by a few Youtube clips. His arguments revolve around the 'commodification' of man and the ways in which capital keep us in our place by that - and the alienation that it creates.

You would do well to read a whole book or two of his. 'One dimensional man' is a good place to start - though it is getting on for 50 years old now. Personally I've ditched all that stuff.

However just to be clear this 'force' you seem to think he has is not some magic bullet. He is talking about real life revolutions, upheavals and the like. He was pretty pessimistic a lot of the time too.

WelI I suggest you read ALL his books. This is a good place to start. And the usual subterfuge from you.

https://thepiratebay3.org/?url=https:// ... (22_books)

Pirate Bai? I very much doubt you have read all 22 but if you have you owe Marcuse's estate a few dollars I would suggest.

[superuniverse]

Actually I have. All except:

* HEGEL'S ONTOLOGY AND THE THEORY OF HISTORICITY (MIT, 1987). Translated by Seyla Benhabib.

which is his first and most difficult book.

Some I have read quite a few times. His best book being Eros and Civilization.

http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/55e ... eccont.htm


Now the answer to the question I posed can be found in the FATAL DIALECTIC OF CIVILIZATION...

[superuniverse]

How can you compare a thinker like Marcuse to a Flim Flam Man like James Randi...






Now back to the QUESTION...

[Rum]

How can you compare a thinker like Marcuse to a Flim Flam Man like James Randi...

[img]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... 0_.jpg/img]

[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... vIT-7W/img]


Now back to the QUESTION...

Nobody is - except perhaps you.

Marcuse was a clever guy of course but he based his thinking on Marx - and treated Marx, as so many on the Left have done so as a prophet with the gift of prediction. When it comes to it Marx was around not too long after the French revolution - the single most significant political earthquake of the previous 200 years in Europe and he said that if people get pissed off enough they rise up. Not exactly rocket science. On the basis of nothing much at all he decided to lay out the processes and future history of societies. He also decreed the solution to oppression of course and that, as it turns out created some of the most repressive social systems ever known. I think his description of the mechanism of and the exercise of power by the owners of capital is spot on more or less, but his 'solutions' suck.

Add to this pseudo science the actual non-science of Freud, who based nearly everything he wrote about on the assumption that the repressed sexuality of his times was the norm. Well the two combined lead us to Marcuse, who dolloped out a mishmash of political philosophy that to my way of thinking is almost meaningless or at the very least off target at this distance in time.

If you think he has some secret power going for him that is up to you of course.

You want 'serious discussion' I'm happy to offer a bit - such as it is. But if you post irrational rubbish the forum will slap you back.

[Svartalf]

Marcuse may be a more profound thinker than randi, but randi knows his subject perfectly well and is a good communicator, while marcuse based his thought on flawed principles, resulting in utter hogwash.

[superuniverse]

I posted this before but there is so much crap on the internet that we can't get enough of real substance ....

At this point, the rebellions of '68 failed and did not translate into revolution. Notice how critical of the movement he has become. A real crisis in his thinking has occurred.

[superuniverse]

BUT ANSWER QUESTION...

WHAT WILL OVERTHROW THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM?

[superuniverse]

Why not the entire interview...

[superuniverse]

[pErvinalia]

BUT ANSWER QUESTION...

WHAT WILL OVERTHROW THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM?

DEPECHE MODE?

[superuniverse]

Not according to Adorno:




Another important thinker of the 20th century, also part of the Frankfurt School. He is far more difficult to understand than Marcuse. Perhaps the deadening of consciousness due to the fetish nature of consumer society can be blamed for that, and why a completely idiotic ideology like atheism can gain so much ground.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... dustry.htm


"THE sociological theory that the loss of the support of objectively established religion, the dissolution of the last remnants of pre-capitalism, together with technological and social differentiation or specialisation, have led to cultural chaos is disproved every day; for culture now impresses the same stamp on everything.

Films, radio and magazines make up a system which is uniform as a whole and in every part. Even the aesthetic activities of political opposites are one in their enthusiastic obedience to the rhythm of the iron system. The decorative industrial management buildings and exhibition centers in authoritarian countries are much the same as anywhere else. The huge gleaming towers that shoot up everywhere are outward signs of the ingenious planning of international concerns, toward which the unleashed entrepreneurial system (whose monuments are a mass of gloomy houses and business premises in grimy, spiritless cities) was already hastening. Even now the older houses just outside the concrete city centres look like slums, and the new bungalows on the outskirts are at one with the flimsy structures of world fairs in their praise of technical progress and their built-in demand to be discarded after a short while like empty food cans.

Yet the city housing projects designed to perpetuate the individual as a supposedly independent unit in a small hygienic dwelling make him all the more subservient to his adversary – the absolute power of capitalism. Because the inhabitants, as producers and as consumers, are drawn into the center in search of work and pleasure, all the living units crystallise into well-organised complexes. The striking unity of microcosm and macrocosm presents men with a model of their culture: the false identity of the general and the particular. Under monopoly all mass culture is identical, and the lines of its artificial framework begin to show through. The people at the top are no longer so interested in concealing monopoly: as its violence becomes more open, so its power grows. Movies and radio need no longer pretend to be art. The truth that they are just business is made into an ideology in order to justify the rubbish they deliberately produce. They call themselves industries; and when their directors’ incomes are published, any doubt about the social utility of the finished products is removed."

The answer is not DM, although they act as a musical avant garde for revolutionary change...

[pErvinalia]

"idiotic ideology like atheism"... It's not an ideology. It's the fucking default state of humans. The idiocy starts when people are indoctrinated into believing in an invisible sky fairy.

[superuniverse]

Don't you love IRONY...

[pErvinalia]

I love rationality.

[superuniverse]

None can say it better:

https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... nswers.htm


"If you only operate within the framework of technical rationality and from the start exclude historically transcendent concepts, that is, negations of the system-for the system is not humane, and humanitarian ideas belong to the negation of the system – then you continually find yourself in the situation of being asked, and not being able to answer, the question, What is really so terrible about this system, which continually expands social wealth so that strata of the population that previously lived in the greatest poverty and misery today have automobiles, television sets, and one-family houses? What is so bad about this system that we dare take the tremendous risk of preaching its overthrow? If you content yourself with material arguments and exclude all other arguments you will not get anywhere. We must finally relearn what we forgot during the fascist period, or what you, who were not even born until after the first fascist period, have not fully become conscious of: that humanitarian and moral arguments are not merely deceitful ideology. Rather, they can and must become central social forces. If we exclude them from our argumentation at the start, we impoverish ourselves and disarm ourselves in the face of the strongest arguments of the defenders of the status quo."


Now back to the question:

In the preceding essay the first question posed is as follows:

"Question [René Mayoraga, Bolivia] If you say that the proletariat of the third world is the major force capable of destroying imperialism, then you have to take this into the structure of your theory. But you have not done this, since you assert in One-Dimensional Man that theory lacks an agent of revolution, and in your talk you say that the student movement has no mass basis. The opposition must make the third world proletariat its mass basis."


WHAT FORCE OR FORCES CAN OVERTHROW CAPITALISM?