Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:07 pm

Sam Nunberg: 'Hold my beer'

'Former Trump aide Sam Nunberg says he will not comply with special counsel Mueller's subpoena'
A former aide to Donald Trump said Monday that he would refuse to comply with special counsel Robert Mueller's subpoena in the Russia probe.

Sam Nunberg, who was an advisor on Trump's 2016 campaign, told MSNBC that it would be "really funny" if Mueller arrested him for ignoring the grand jury subpoena. Laughing, he said that "my lawyer is about to dump me right now."

...

The MSNBC interview came after the Washington Post published a story that cited Nunberg as saying he would refuse to comply with the subpoena. "Let him arrest me," Nunberg told the newspaper. "Mr. Mueller should understand I am not going in on Friday."

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:21 pm

Meh. What are they going to do? Send in a swat team at 4am and drag him out in his pjs? I don't think so. If he's innocent he's every right to refuse to be subpoenaed, because we all know that complying with a subpoena is tantamount to an admission of guilt, isn't it?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Joe » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 pm

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 am

A comprehensive examination of Christopher Steele's work investigating Russia for Fusion GPS, and more. Like many of the great articles in The New Yorker it's rather long, but well worth the time, in my opinion.

'Christopher Steele, the Man Behind the Trump Dossier'
Steele believed that the Russians were engaged in the biggest electoral crime in U.S. history, and wondered why the F.B.I. and the State Department didn’t seem to be taking the threat seriously. Likening it to the attack on Pearl Harbor, he felt that President Obama needed to make a speech to alert the country. He also thought that Obama should privately warn Putin that unless he stopped meddling the U.S. would retaliate with a cyberattack so devastating it would shut Russia down.

Steele wasn’t aware that by August, 2016, a similar debate was taking place inside the Obama White House and the U.S. intelligence agencies. According to an article by the Washington Post, that month the C.I.A. sent what the paper described as “an intelligence bombshell” to President Obama, warning him that Putin was directly involved in a Russian cyber campaign aimed at disrupting the Presidential election—and helping Trump win. Robert Hannigan, then the head of the U.K.’s intelligence service the G.C.H.Q., had recently flown to Washington and briefed the C.I.A.’s director, John Brennan, on a stream of illicit communications between Trump’s team and Moscow that had been intercepted. (The content of these intercepts has not become public.) But, as the Post noted, the C.I.A.’s assessment that the Russians were interfering specifically to boost Trump was not yet accepted by other intelligence agencies, and it wasn’t until days before the Inauguration that major U.S. intelligence agencies had unanimously endorsed this view.

In the meantime, the White House was unsure how to respond. Earlier this year, at the Council on Foreign Relations, former Vice-President Joe Biden revealed that, after Presidential daily briefings, he and Obama “would sit there” and ask each other, “What the hell are we going to do?” The U.S. eventually sent a series of stern messages to the Russians, the most pointed of which took place when Obama pulled Putin aside on September 5th, at a G20 summit in China, and reportedly warned him, “Better stop, or else.”

But Obama and his top advisers did not want to take any action against Russia that might provoke a cyber war. And because it was so close to the election, they were wary about doing anything that could be construed as a ploy to help Clinton. All along, Trump had dismissed talk of Russian interference as a hoax, claiming that no one really knew who had hacked the D.N.C.: it could have been China, he said, or a guy from New Jersey, or “somebody sitting on their bed that weighs four hundred pounds.” Trump had also warned his supporters that the election would be rigged against him, and Obama and his top aides were loath to further undermine the public’s faith.

In early September, 2016, Obama tried to get congressional leaders to issue a bipartisan statement condemning Russia’s meddling in the election. He reasoned that if both parties signed on the statement couldn’t be attacked as political. The intelligence community had recently informed the Gang of Eight—the leaders of both parties and the ranking representatives on the Senate and House Intelligence Committees—that Russia was acting on behalf of Trump. But one Gang of Eight member, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, expressed skepticism about the Russians’ role, and refused to sign a bipartisan statement condemning Russia. After that, Obama, instead of issuing a statement himself, said nothing.

Steele anxiously asked his American counterparts what else could be done to alert the country. One option was to go to the press. Simpson wasn’t all that worried, though. As he recalled in his subsequent congressional testimony, “We were operating under the assumption at that time that Hillary Clinton was going to win the election, and so there was no urgency to it.”

Contemporaneous F.B.I. text messages disclosed recently by the Wall Street Journal reflect a similar complacency. In August, 2016, two F.B.I. employees, Lisa Page and Peter Strzok, texted about investigating possible collusion between Trump and the Russians. “omg i cannot believe we are seriously looking at these allegations and the pervasive connections,” Strzok wrote. Page suggested that they could take their time, because there was little reason to worry that Clinton would lose. But Strzok disagreed, warning that they should push ahead, anyway, as “an insurance policy” in case Trump was elected—like “the unlikely event you die before you’re 40.”

When excerpts of these texts first became public, Trump defenders such as Trey Gowdy seized on them as proof that the F.B.I. had schemed to devise “an insurance policy” to keep Trump from getting elected. But a reading of the full text chain makes it clear that the agents were discussing whether or not they needed to focus urgently on investigating collusion.

...

A former State Department official recalls a social gathering where he danced around the subject with the British Ambassador, Sir Kim Darroch. After exchanging cryptic hints, to make sure that they were both in the know, he asked the Ambassador, “Is this guy Steele legit?” The Ambassador replied, “Absolutely.” Brennan, then the C.I.A. director, also heard the rumors. (Nunes reportedly plans to examine Steele’s interactions with the C.I.A. and the State Department next.) But Brennan said recently, on “Meet the Press,” that he heard just “snippets” about the dossier “in press circles,” emphasizing that he didn’t see the dossier until well after the election, and said that “it did not play any role whatsoever” in the intelligence community’s appraisal of Russian election meddling. Brennan said of the dossier, “It was up to the F.B.I. to see whether or not they could verify any of it.”

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Joe » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:51 am

Interesting article. It made a point I heard when it initially came out, and not since, that should be kept in mind.
At the time, Steele figured that almost nobody would ever see the raw intelligence. The credibility of Steele’s dossier has been much debated, but few realize that it was a compilation of contemporaneous interviews rather than a finished product. Orbis was just a subcontractor, and Steele and Burrows reasoned that Fusion could, if it wished, process the findings into an edited report for the ultimate client. So Orbis left it up to Fusion to make the judgment calls about what to leave in, and to decide whether to add caveats and source notes of the kind that accompany most government intelligence reports.

John Sipher spent twenty-eight years as a clandestine officer in the C.I.A., and ran the agency’s Russia program before retiring, in 2014. He said of Steele’s memos, “This is source material, not expert opinion.” Sipher has described the dossier as “generally credible,” although not correct in every detail. He said, “People have misunderstood that it’s a collection of dots, not a connecting of the dots. But it provided the first narrative saying what Russia might be up to.” Alexander Vershbow, a U.S. Ambassador to Russia under George W. Bush, told me, “In intelligence, you evaluate your sources as best you can, but it’s not like journalism, where you try to get more than one source to confirm something. In the intelligence business, you don’t pretend you’re a hundred per cent accurate. If you’re seventy or eighty per cent accurate, that makes you one of the best.”
Not being finished product, it had the credibility you would expect of raw intelligence from multiple sources. To get a finished product, they would have to evaluate each source for credibility, corroborate what they could, and eliminate the obvious garbage.

I'm guessing this is what Mueller is doing as one prong of his investigation. As the article shows, some of this stuff is holding up.
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by mistermack » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:54 am

The US interferes in just about every election around the world that can possibly be of US interest.

Nice that they got a bit of their own medicine for a change. Now if Putin could instigate a civil war in the US, that might even up some of the shit that they've caused around the world.
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Joe » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:23 am

Well, it's not the first time another country interfered in our elections to this extent, so I guess we'll take our lumps and get through it.
Covert intelligence operations, propaganda, fake news stories, dirty tricks—all were used in a foreign government’s audacious attempt to influence U.S. elections. It wasn’t 2016; it was 1940, and the operations were employed not by a hostile adversary, but by America’s closest ally, the United Kingdom.

Though technology has advanced, and the two nations’ motives could not have been more different, critical aspects of Russia’s alleged covert efforts to bolster the campaign of Donald Trump echo the tactics that Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service pioneered seven decades ago. In 1940, as war raged in Europe, British intel officers in New York and Washington worked to elect candidates who favored U.S. intervention, defeat those who advocated neutrality, and silence or destroy the reputations of American isolationists they deemed a menace to British security. Scores—perhaps hundreds—of Americans who believed that fighting fascism justified unethical and, at times, illegal behavior, worked for British intelligence or cooperated with London’s efforts.
I suppose you could say we learned from the masters. :tiphat:
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by JimC » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:31 am

You guys needed to be gently guided onto the path of righteousness at that stage in history...
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Joe » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:12 pm

It's okay, the gin was worth it. :martini:
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Tero » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:17 pm

Putin 2018/2020 threat:
Personally, if I were Putin and wished to inflict maximum damage on the U.S. for little cost, I’d hack and manipulate the 2020 U.S. Census. Think about it. It is inadequately protected and little understood by most Americans, but has massive influence on how we define our legislative districts, how we look at immigration, invest in infrastructure and how we deliver educational and health care services. It is also a fantastic means for a hostile intelligence service to collect information on Americans that can be used to weaponize future attacks across the board. It is one thing to change a few votes, and quite another to influence how our very electoral districts are defined. Call it Russian gerrymandering.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 4?lo=ap_f1

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Feck » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:32 pm

If I were Putin and I wanted to make the USA look like a total fucking joke i'd have helped get that golfist cretin elected .
Why piss on the USA when you have video of whores pissing on it's President ?
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:36 pm

If I were Putin I'd spend all day stroking my tiger.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Tero » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:44 pm

Trump hires lawyer that did nothing much for Clinton. He got disbarred.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/10/politics ... index.html

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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:50 pm

"Trump met with lawyer Emmet T. Flood in the Oval Office about joining the team as Trump and his allies continue to deal with the special counsel investigation."

Emmet T Flood? Sounds like a character from Looney Tunes.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

Post by Forty Two » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:29 am

Tero wrote:Putin 2018/2020 threat:
Personally, if I were Putin and wished to inflict maximum damage on the U.S. for little cost, I’d hack and manipulate the 2020 U.S. Census. Think about it. It is inadequately protected and little understood by most Americans, but has massive influence on how we define our legislative districts, how we look at immigration, invest in infrastructure and how we deliver educational and health care services. It is also a fantastic means for a hostile intelligence service to collect information on Americans that can be used to weaponize future attacks across the board. It is one thing to change a few votes, and quite another to influence how our very electoral districts are defined. Call it Russian gerrymandering.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... 4?lo=ap_f1
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