Trump and Russia; Spasiba, Harasho!

[Brian Peacock]

Nunes: lists bs on Steele memo
Schiff memo: "Christopher Steele's reporting, which he began to share with an FBI agent through the end of October 2016, played no role in launching the FBI's counterintelligence investigation into Russian interference and links to the Trump campaign. In fact, Steele's reporting did not reach the counterintelligence team investigating Russia at FBI headquarters until mid-September 2016, more than seven Weeks after the FBI opened its investigation, because the probe's existence was so closely held within the FBI."

The issue wasn't whether the steele memo played a role in launching the "counterintelligence investigation." The issue was the role it played in getting FISA warrants issued for surveillance.

But wholly and only if the third 90-day extension to Page's FISA warrant was granted on the basis of Steele's raw intelligence alone.

[L'Emmerdeur]

A certain Maltese professor seems to have disappeared.

'The Professor At The Center Of The Trump-Russia Probe Boasted To His Girlfriend In Ukraine That He Was Friends With Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov'

Amid the opportunists, weirdos, trolls, and pawns who make up the cast of the Russian plot to interfere in American politics, Joseph Mifsud stands out.

The Maltese professor, who allegedly delivered word of Hillary Clinton’s stolen emails to Donald Trump's campaign, is an authentically mysterious figure, his true role and ties to Russian intelligence unclear.

And while others like former Trump campaign aides George Papadopoulos and Carter Page — and their friends and girlfriends — told their stories, Mifsud went to ground. His biography disappeared from one university where he taught and he quit his job at another university. His email and cell phones went dead. And politicians, colleagues, and journalists can't find him.

Neither can Anna, his 31-year-old Ukrainian fiancé, who says he is the father of her newborn child.

[pErvinalia]

Putin got him.

[JimC]

He is visiting a Siberian resort and health spa...

[Tero]

First Kushner, I think Trump next: take his security clearance away!

[L'Emmerdeur]

Well, the problem I see it with intepretations of Trump's words is the failure to listen to distinctions in what he says.

For example, the media jumped on him when he said he had not denied that "Russia" or "Russians" had meddled in the election. They cited his statement that he looked into Putin's eyes and believed Putin when Putin said that Putin had not been behind the meddling. Note the difference there.

Trump claimed that that he 'never said Russia did not meddle in the election.' By a weaseling interpretation (making much of a distinction without a difference), that may be correct. On the other hand he did say 'I don’t believe they [the Russians] interfered,' and has repeatedly called the idea of Russian interference a 'hoax.'

Russia or Russians could be involved without Putin himself being involved - plainly that's a clear possibility.

Ah, Putin was innocently going about his business of being an autocrat whose political opponents have the poor grace to end up dead or in prison, and had no involvement at all in the meddling, eh? Just a rogue element in the Russian oligarch/government complex, eh?

The indictment from Mueller did not involve Putin or anybody in Putin's inner circle. It was a bunch of rich moguls in Russia funding some activities. But the media take his statement of taking Putin at his words that "I" didn't have anything to do with it, to mean that no Russians had anything to do with it.

So you're saying that Yevgeny Prigozhin isn't part of 'Putin's inner circle'? He devised a cunning plan all on his own and went ahead to spend the equivalent of millions of dollars supporting the troll farm that described its own actions as 'information warfare' against the strongest military power on Earth, but Putin had nothing to do with it? The cat's paw who is known as somebody willing and ready to do Putin's dirty work? Such an interpretation of the known facts would require an exceptional degree of gullibility or a rather flexible relationship with reality.

[Tero]

And they still watch the pee pee tape at every KGB Christmas party!

[Forty Two]

Well, the problem I see it with intepretations of Trump's words is the failure to listen to distinctions in what he says.

For example, the media jumped on him when he said he had not denied that "Russia" or "Russians" had meddled in the election. They cited his statement that he looked into Putin's eyes and believed Putin when Putin said that Putin had not been behind the meddling. Note the difference there.

Trump claimed that that he 'never said Russia did not meddle in the election.' By a weaseling interpretation (making much of a distinction without a difference), that may be correct. On the other hand he did say 'I don’t believe they [the Russians] interfered,' and has repeatedly called the idea of Russian interference a 'hoax.'

Well, indeed, because even the intelligence memo cited in this matter, and the latest indictment, both say that there was no actual interference. No impact or effect on the election. All they've talked about is posting of Facebook ads, and organizing rallies -- on both sides, for and against Trump. They even organized a 10,000 person rally outside Trump tower, so the indictment says, against Trump.

And, the context of the allegations of meddling is always that the Russians did so in cahoots with the Trump campaign. So, most of his denials are in that context, denying that there was anything going on that he or his campaign was involved.

Russia or Russians could be involved without Putin himself being involved - plainly that's a clear possibility.

Ah, Putin was innocently going about his business of being an autocrat whose political opponents have the poor grace to end up dead or in prison, and had no involvement at all in the meddling, eh? Just a rogue element in the Russian oligarch/government complex, eh?

I don't know, and neither do you. Nobody has indicted Putin, or made an allegation against him. There's a bunch of wealthy moguls. Does what Soros does or the Koch Bros get attributed to the President?

The indictment from Mueller did not involve Putin or anybody in Putin's inner circle. It was a bunch of rich moguls in Russia funding some activities. But the media take his statement of taking Putin at his words that "I" didn't have anything to do with it, to mean that no Russians had anything to do with it.

So you're saying that Yevgeny Prigozhin isn't part of 'Putin's inner circle'? He had a cunning plan and went ahead to spent the equivalent of millions of dollars supporting the troll farm that described its own actions as 'information warfare' against the strongest military power on Earth, but Putin had nothing to do with it? The cat's paw who is known as somebody willing and ready to do Putin's dirty work? Such an interpretation of the known facts would require an exceptional degree of gullibility or a rather flexible relationship with reality.

I don't know, and neither do you. He is a restaurant business owner and a wealthy Russian Oligarch. Like George Soros, he has his own political and financial ambitions and interests. They aren't just puppets on Putin's strings. Wealthy guys are involved in politics.

Frankly, none of the "interference" allegations make a damn bit of sense, even if we were to direct them against Putin. It's so Bush League, and minimal. Facebook ads and Social media trolling? Organizing rallies, most of which didn't happen. Organizing rallies for and against both Democrats and Republicans? Facebook ads with Jesus arm-wrestling the Devil? I mean, this is ridiculous stuff. The only charges in that indictment that are worth a damn are the money laundering and illegal transactions counts. The rest is tripe. A russian troll farm posted ads on facebook? This is what crossed the line? Decades of spies infiltrating all levels of the US government, hacked computers, stolen data, bribed and extorted officials, double agents, stolen nuclear secrets, stolen plans, information and propaganda campaigns for decades --- NOW this is beyond the pale? Meddling by social media trolling to the tune of a couple million bucks out of an election on which the candidates spent over $1.6 billion.

It's horse shit.

[Forty Two]

And they still watch the pee pee tape at every KGB Christmas party!

Exactly. This is what it's come down to. Bullshit allegations about hiring hookers to pee on a bed that Obama slept in years before. The very idea is absurd.

[Seabass]

Coincidence theory of Trump and Russia: A conspiracy of dunces

You could argue that Russia randomly decided to go all in for Trump and Trump was too hapless to properly conspire. And I've got a Trump Tower to sell you.

There are two options: Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia worked together to help elect our current president of the United States, or we are witnessing the greatest coincidence since the Big Bang.

Call it collusion. Call it a collaboration. Or, even better, call it a “conspiracy against the United States” — since that’s probably what the indictments will keep calling it.

Just don’t call it a coincidence, especially if the FBI is interviewing you.

If you want to argue that Russia randomly decided to endure unknown risks to do almost everything it could to put Trump in the White House, and that Trump was just too hapless to properly conspire, even after decades of schemes where he got richer while others got burned, here are just some of fantastic events that you have to believe are only “coincidences”:

In 2013, after decades of struggling to do business in Russia and in the midst of plotting what many assumed would be another vanity run for president, Trump announced he planned to hold his Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. The 67-year-old reality TV star tweeted that June, “Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow — if so, will he become my new best friend?”

The next month, the Internet Research Agency registered in Russia to begin what a recent indictment filed by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office called “information warfare against the United States of America.”

Though Trump's meeting President Vladimir Putin in Moscow didn't happen then, the courtship continued.

In 2014, Trump opportunistically attacked Russia’s policies when it was convenient to criticize President Obama, but he refused to say a negative word in public about Putin — a policy he pretty much extends only to his businesses, his relatives and his anatomy.

On Fox News that February, Trump defended the slapstick spectacle of the Sochi Olympics and warned that “we should not be knocking that country” because the United States is “going to win something important later on, and they won’t be opposed to what we’re doing.”

In April 2014, after the U.S. had levied sanctions on Russia for “violating the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine,” the Internet Research Agency allegedly began its U.S.-focused "translator project" with a goal of spreading “distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general."

Coincidentally, this became a major theme of Trump’s presidential campaign that he officially launched in June of 2015.

As Trump continued to praise Putin and question NATO, the backbone of Soviet and Russian containment for more than half a century, social media trolls backed by the Kremlin rained support on Trump.

In September 2015, the FBI contacted the Democratic National Committee to warn that at least one of its computers had been hacked by the Russians.

The next month, more than a week after Trump's Twitter account tweeted an article entitled “Putin Loves Donald Trump,” Trump signed a letter of intent to build a Trump Tower in Moscow (something he never disclosed during the campaign).

That November, Felix Sater, a longtime Trump associate reputed to have Russian mob connections, told Trump Organization lawyer Michael Cohen in an email, “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putin's team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”

In March 2016, Paul Manafort, a Trump Tower resident with a long history of lobbying for Trump interests and foreign despots, joined the Trump campaign. For some reason, Manafort was willing to work for free despite apparently owing as much as $17 million to pro-Russian interests.

That same month, the Gmail account of Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta was hacked.

In June 2016, Donald Trump Jr. received an email that said the “Crown prosecutor” of Russia had “some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary.” Trump Jr. responded, “If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer.” They met that month.

The next month at the Republican National Convention, after years of criticizing Obama’s weakness toward Russia, the GOP softened platform language opposing Putin’s moves in Ukraine. The next week, WikiLeaks began leaking hacked emails from the DNC.

After the Democratic National Convention, Trump famously said at a news conference: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 (Clinton) emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press." Trump could only be sure Russia would be “rewarded mightily” if he knew Russia was aiming to harm Clinton.

Coincidentally, at that point the Internet Research Agency’s agenda, according to the Mueller indictment, “included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump (‘Trump Campaign’) and disparaging Hillary Clinton.”

In October, just hours after the Access Hollywood tape came out, WikiLeaks began to release Podesta’s emails. Though the Trump campaign is supposedly feckless, it summoned laser focus on these emails. “I love WikiLeaks,” Trump said in one of his 141 references to the organization in the month before the election.

Of particular interest to the Trump campaign was an email that allegedly mocked “conservative Catholicism.” Somehow, it almost immediately became the obsession of the right, amongst the over 20,000 pages eventually leaked.

Vice presidential candidate Mike Pence joined the calls for Clinton to apologize to Catholics, a group she was leading with in August but either lost or came close to losing on Election Day.

In which states might the Catholic vote have been decisive for the Trump-Pence campaign? Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, for a start.

What a coincidence.

There are also the “coincidences” that have taken place since the election. They include naming a winner of the “Russian Order of Friendship” as secretary of State, rushing to ease sanctions on Putin, and refusing to implement new sanctions on Russia or secure our elections from likely attacks on the 2018 elections.

If you don’t see the conspiracy by now, you just don’t want to.

Trump has long benefited from the willingness of his opponents, his creditors and the news media to underestimate his guile and ruthlessness. Apparently, that’s a mistake Russia didn’t make.

Jason Sattler, a writer based in Ann Arbor, Mich., is a member of USA TODAY’s Board of Contributors and host of The Sit and Spin Room podcast. Follow him on Twitter: @LOLGOP

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 373938002/

[Forty Two]

Coincidence theory of Trump and Russia: A conspiracy of dunces

You could argue that Russia randomly decided to go all in for Trump and Trump was too hapless to properly conspire. And I've got a Trump Tower to sell you.

Of course, the recent Mueller indictment says the Russians were organizing rallies and posting ads regarding various candidates, and the biggest rally was against Trump, not for him. The goal was to sow discord and chaos. So, there was no allegation that they went all in for Trump.

There are two options: Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia worked together to help elect our current president of the United States, or we are witnessing the greatest coincidence since the Big Bang.

Not at all. Russia has been doing this kind of thing for decades, and worse. The intelligence report most cited from back in 12/2016 says exactly that - a continuation of a longstanding practice by Russia.

Call it collusion. Call it a collaboration. Or, even better, call it a “conspiracy against the United States” — since that’s probably what the indictments will keep calling it.

Just don’t call it a coincidence, especially if the FBI is interviewing you.

If you want to argue that Russia randomly decided to endure unknown risks to do almost everything it could to put Trump in the White House,

LOL - the efforts were pathetic and meager. Facebook ads. Social media trolling. Organizing rallies - on both sides of the political spectrum, for and against Trump. If that's the best they can do, we have nothing to worry about.

and that Trump was just too hapless to properly conspire, even after decades of schemes where he got richer while others got burned, here are just some of fantastic events that you have to believe are only “coincidences”:

In 2013, after decades of struggling to do business in Russia and in the midst of plotting what many assumed would be another vanity run for president, Trump announced he planned to hold his Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. The 67-year-old reality TV star tweeted that June, “Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow — if so, will he become my new best friend?”

Why would he tweet that publicly, if he was really getting in cahoots with Vladimir Putin?

The next month, the Internet Research Agency registered in Russia to begin what a recent indictment filed by special counsel Robert Mueller’s office called “information warfare against the United States of America.”

Social media posts of Jesus arm-wrestling the devil, or Hillary. Organizing rallies, most of which did not occur, and some of which were anti-Trump.

Though Trump's meeting President Vladimir Putin in Moscow didn't happen then, the courtship continued.

Of course, the article hasn't established a courtship at all, much less one "continuing." The only thing the article said was Trump asked if Putin would be his friend - on Twitter.

In 2014, Trump opportunistically attacked Russia’s policies when it was convenient to criticize President Obama, but he refused to say a negative word in public about Putin — a policy he pretty much extends only to his businesses, his relatives and his anatomy.

On Fox News that February, Trump defended the slapstick spectacle of the Sochi Olympics and warned that “we should not be knocking that country” because the United States is “going to win something important later on, and they won’t be opposed to what we’re doing.”

Right! Fox News was in on the fix! And, they announced it publicly during the Olympics! Yes yes! don't knock Russia, cuz we're going to win "something important" later on! Must be talking about the 2016 election, which trump had not announced his candidacy for, and which when he did announce, everyone laughed their asses off and were daring him to run. But, Fox was in on it, and all those in the know kept the secret, except to allude to it obliquely on Olympics coverage.

enough already...

[Seabass]

Reading. Comprehension. Please. The article didn't say Fox News was in on it. And for fuck's sake, learn how to use the fucking quote tags.

Christ. Trump supporters are like Scientologists, but with Trump instead of Xenu.

[Forty Two]

Reading. Comprehension. Please. The article didn't say Fox News was in on it. And for fuck's sake, learn how to use the fucking quote tags.

If Fox News was not in on it, then what was the point of their quote suggesting that we ought not criticize Russia and we will win something in the future? Why is that relevant?

And, I know how to use the quote tags - I made a mistake, and had to stop my response quickly without verifying. Sorry, Mr. Perfect.

Christ. Trump supporters are like Scientologists, but with Trump instead of Xenu.

LOL - that entire article is a giant conspiracy theory, and you dare to mock Trump supporters? The article is a joke.

[L'Emmerdeur]

Well, indeed, because even the intelligence memo cited in this matter, and the latest indictment, both say that there was no actual interference. No impact or effect on the election.

That's certainly Trump's line, and I'm not surprised that you would parrot it. Care to quote the relevant statements from any intelligence agency that you believe support this narrative?

What intelligence agencies have made clear repeatedly is that it's not in their purview to evaluate the effect of the Russian efforts on the elction. For instance, in Rosenstein's statement on the recent indictment of the Russians he carefully pointed out that the allegations in the indictment do not pertain to any effects on the outcome of the election. I think you know this perfectly well, and I also think your critical faculties are up to the task of understanding what the intelligence agencies have actually said, and what they haven't said.

All they've talked about is posting of Facebook ads, and organizing rallies -- on both sides, for and against Trump. They even organized a 10,000 person rally outside Trump tower, so the indictment says, against Trump.

And, the context of the allegations of meddling is always that the Russians did so in cahoots with the Trump campaign. So, most of his denials are in that context, denying that there was anything going on that he or his campaign was involved.

The actual allegations made by the intelligence agencies up to this point have not been about involvement of the Trump campaign with Russian interference. Who does your assertion pertain to? Media outlets have been covering the actual allegations, and while there has been speculation about the Trump campaign being involved, that has not been the primary focus except for when there is clear evidence that members of the Trump campaign actually have been in communication with Russians or Russian-affiliated agents. In Trump's paranoia and narcissism he may see anything pertaining to Russian interference as directed at him, but I would think that you might have a more objective view of the matter. Apparently not.

Ah, Putin was innocently going about his business of being an autocrat whose political opponents have the poor grace to end up dead or in prison, and had no involvement at all in the meddling, eh? Just a rogue element in the Russian oligarch/government complex, eh?

I don't know, and neither do you. Nobody has indicted Putin, or made an allegation against him. There's a bunch of wealthy moguls. Does what Soros does or the Koch Bros get attributed to the President?

Right, because the US is just like Russia, isn't it? Are you going to deny that the government and oligarchs in Russia generally work hand in hand, and that those oligarchs who have attempted to buck that system have suffered severe consequences? That Putin wields dictatorial power in Russia, and it's vanishingly unlikely that a project aimed at Russia's most powerful antagonist would go forward without his approval? Who do you think you're kidding?

I don't know, and neither do you. He is a restaurant business owner and a wealthy Russian Oligarch. Like George Soros, he has his own political and financial ambitions and interests. They aren't just puppets on Putin's strings. Wealthy guys are involved in politics.

You're either misrepresenting what is known about Prigozhin, or you're displaying ignorance here. Either way, your evaluation of who he is and what he does is blatantly inaccurate.

The investigation is proceeding slower than some would like but as I've pointed out previously, such things are best done methodically and with thorough due diligence. I don't agree with your assessment of the allegations that have been produced, nor do I think that they are all that will be produced.

[Seabass]

Reading. Comprehension. Please. The article didn't say Fox News was in on it. And for fuck's sake, learn how to use the fucking quote tags.

If Fox News was not in on it, then what was the point of their quote suggesting that we ought not criticize Russia and we will win something in the future? Why is that relevant?

Read it again. If you wear glasses, be sure to put them on.