Britain is going to be Tory for at least 10 years.

[mistermack]

This is the most idiotic posting you've ever done.
Even for you, it's almost unbelievable. Why have people going to work? Just keep printing free money.
Funnily enough, that's exactly what led to WW2. And Zimbabwe had a go as well.

It's not free money. It's a devaluation by printing.
If there are a thousand dollars in circulation, and you print another five hundred, you haven't created any wealth.

It's free money for the people printing it, but the intention is SUPPOSED to be that you later reverse the process, when the economy picks up. In other words, the government is helping itself to a free loan from the people. They lend it out cheap to their mates, who make a fortune because of the favourable rates.
A fair lump of that fortune finds it's way into bonuses and back handers.
People get cheap mortgages, house prices go up, and the bubble activity pays for it all.

When the bubble bursts, the bonuses and bribes are long gone. And the poor end up paying.

As usual.

[pErvinalia]

This is the most idiotic posting you've ever done.
Even for you, it's almost unbelievable. Why have people going to work? Just keep printing free money.
Funnily enough, that's exactly what led to WW2. And Zimbabwe had a go as well.

It's not free money. It's a devaluation by printing.
If there are a thousand dollars in circulation, and you print another five hundred, you haven't created any wealth.

This isn't the most idiotic thing you've ever posted, despite it being pretty fucking idiotic (its just that you set the idiotic bar so high).

One, inflation isn't as simple as saying double the currency, halve the value. There's whole schools built around trying to explain how inflation works. But sure, the second nuttiest conspiracy theorist on Ratz has it all worked out from his armchair..

Two, QE hasn't over history increased the money supply by 50%. Hyperbolic arguments don't tell us anything. If you want to try and argue a case, use real world examples.

Three, the biggest challenge facing western economies (behind debt, which as I've tried to explain to Brian, QE isn't), is deflation. Despite all the new money put into circulation during and after the GFC, inflation levels in western economies are historically low. There's reasons for this, but I'm not explaining them to a crackpot who thinks science is a giant conspiracy theory.

It's free money for the people printing it, but the intention is SUPPOSED to be that you later reverse the process, when the economy picks up. In other words, the government is helping itself to a free loan from the people. They lend it out cheap to their mates, who make a fortune because of the favourable rates.

QE isn't done by governments, it's done by independent central banks. Oh, that's right, they're all owned by the Illuminati, I suppose. Good point, I concede...

[pErvinalia]

It's not paid for. Learn what the concept is. I'd explain it to you, but past experience suggests you are never wrong, so you wouldn't accept it anyway.

Rewind. I said that QE involves taking on debt, which it does. You've just assumed I meant borrowing, which I didn't.

The equivocation is strong in this one... It's not debt. 97% of money is borrowed into existence via commercial banks. That's debt. QE is created interest free.

And of course QE is paid for - it's not free money.

Rubbish. Who gets paid back? Where does one pay it back? It is literally free money. You are making a faulty assumption that throwing a lump of free money into an economy has a negative impact (and hence "costs" something). It can have a negative impact, but in the vast majority of cases it pumps an economy and generates wealth. It's a FAR better model than loaning money into existence as a compounding debt.

Actually, I should probably concede some of this. I was thinking purely in terms of the money creation process (i.e. interest free), not what almost always is the method to get that into the economy (buying bonds and securities). So those obviously attract an interest rate (and therefore compounding debt - albeit cheaper than other sources) and have to be paid back. I was thinking more of a system of what Milton Friedman PBUH called "helicopter money", which is the same free money creation process, but just give it away for free (i.e. no interest, no repayment needed). I think this is what Corbyn is proposing for the UK. This of course is likely to be more inflationary than regular QE, but as I said to MM, deflation is the killer at the moment. We need inflation.

I also wonder if policy changes can and perhaps will occur to essentially write some of the trillions of that QE off, essentially turning it into helicopter money. It would make sense if the central banks had that option if they needed, to really boost economic growth while also fighting deflation.

[JimC]

The best thing to do with an increased money supply is investment in physical infrastructure by government. More employment, and (with the right choice of infrastructure) a boost to the economy and an encouragement to private investment.

[mistermack]

Actually, I should probably concede some of this. I was thinking . . . . .

No, you THOUGHT you were !!

[pErvinalia]

The best thing to do with an increased money supply is investment in physical infrastructure by government. More employment, and (with the right choice of infrastructure) a boost to the economy and an encouragement to private investment.

yeah, I think this is what Corbyn plans to do via an infrastructure related bank of some sort.

[pErvinalia]

Actually, I should probably concede some of this. I was thinking . . . . .

No, you THOUGHT you were !!

edit:

[JimC]

Recursive sarcastic ROFLs!

Only on Ratz!

[mistermack]

Recursive sarcastic ROFLs!

Only on Ratz!

[pErvinalia]

Recursive sarcastic ROFLs!

Only on Ratz!

Only on Ratz!

[Brian Peacock]

vernment’s social mobility adviser revealed he and his team were quitting, warning the prime minister was failing over her pledge to build a “fairer Britain”.

In a major blow to No 10, Alan Milburn, the former Labour cabinet minister who chairs the government’s social mobility commission, said he and all three of his fellow commissioners were walking out - including leading conservative Gillian Shephard.

The move will be seen as a direct challenge to May’s Downing Street vow to place fairness and social justice at the heart of her premiership. In his resignation letter, seen by the Observer, Milburn warns that dealing with Brexit means that the government “does not seem to have the necessary bandwidth to ensure the rhetoric of healing social division is matched with the reality.

“I have little hope of the current government making the progress I believe is necessary to bring about a fairer Britain,” he tells the prime minister. “It seems unable to commit to the future of the commission as an independent body or to give due priority to the social mobility challenge facing our nation.”

,,,

Milburn warned that failing to deal with the inequalities that fuelled the Brexit vote would simply lead to a rise of political extremes. In a devastating assessment of the lack of progress, Milburn said: “The worst position in politics is to set out a proposition that you’re going to heal social divisions and then do nothing about it. It’s almost better never to say that you’ll do anything about it.

“It’s disappointing at least that the government hasn’t got its shoulder to the wheel in the way it should to deal with these structural issues that lead to social division and political alienation in the country.

“In America for 30 years real average earnings have remained flat. Now here the chancellor is predicting that will last for 20 years. That has a consequence for people, but a political consequence as well. It means more anger, more resentment and creates a breeding ground for populism.” ...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... an-milburn

To paraphrase a former Tory leader: "Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring the economy to its knees..."

[Brian Peacock]

Damian Green sacked as first secretary of state after porn allegations

Damian Green has been sacked as first secretary of state after admitting he lied about the presence of pornographic images on his House of Commons computer.

An investigation by the cabinet secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, found that Green’s vehement denials after a Sunday newspaper reported that porn had been found on his computer were “inaccurate and misleading”.

His departure is a personal blow for Theresa May, who brought him into Downing Street after her majority was wiped out in June’s general election to help shore up her authority.

He is the third cabinet minister to step aside since early November, following the departures of Michael Fallon and Priti Patel....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard

Pull the other one.

[Rum]

He's actually finessed his departure. He's going because of trying to lie rather than for having porn on his computer.

[Brian Peacock]

He's a wanker whichever way you look at it.

[Rum]

Well he's quit to spend more time with his right hand, that's for sure.