You probably know more about it than I do, but the BBC certainly had a view this lunchtime that he was attempting to steer Ukraine westwards.L'Emmerdeur wrote:Manafort was working for a pro-Russian Ukrainian politician--essentially opposed to a move towards NATO. I doubt that the CIA would have been assisting that project.Rum wrote:Manafort was of course working in the very murky waters around getting Ukraine to move towards NATO and the West. Much cash no doubt exchanged hands - some quite probably via the CIA...maybe anyway.
Time for Glaxo's version I fancy.
I hadn't heard that he was in any way working to get Ukraine to move towards NATO, or involved with somebody who was. Do you have a source for that?
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That's how he tried to portray his work, but it was more about appearances, while Yanukovych (the Ukrainian client) was never anything but a Putin stooge.
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It’s just Trump. Hillary gets get out of jail card. Trump monopoly:Tyrannical wrote:Manafort indicted for shenanigans, during his time he worked with Podesta and the Clintons, not Trump.....
Three of the criminal counts charged against Manafort and Gates cover activities through 2017 and another count includes activities through 2016, according to the 12-count indictment.
Mueller’s office also announced a plea agreement with a former Trump foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos, who is alleged to have had interactions with an “overseas professor” with “substantial connections to Russia government officials.” In a document Mueller released, the professor is alleged to have told Papadopoulos in April 2016 that the Russian government had “dirt” on Trump’s campaign opponent, Hillary Clinton, in the form of “thousands of emails.”
(Bloomberg)
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For any that are curious about the opinion piece posted by Forty Two here, I can offer a tip that might be useful in the future. That particular publication normally blocks non-subscribers from viewing entire articles. However if you know the title of the article you can go on Twitter and do a search for it. If you use a link in a tweet to go to their site, you will get access to the full article. (As in this case, here.)
I finally took the time to do that and look at the opinion piece, and am not impressed. The first paragraph pretty much says it all.
I finally took the time to do that and look at the opinion piece, and am not impressed. The first paragraph pretty much says it all.
Note the weasel words 'plausible' and 'may,' used to characterize the case that supposedly supports the attempts to discredit Mueller, which are clearly (not 'imagined') partisan grandstanding. In any case that ship had already sailed when the opinion piece was written. Despite the grandstanding, if the Trump administration had removed Mueller or tried to force him to recuse himself even then, it would have done anything but dispose of the problem he represents. More so now, of course.Let’s give plausible accounts of the known facts, then explain why demands that Robert Mueller recuse himself from the Russia investigation may not be the fanciful partisan grandstanding you imagine.
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Hacker, Banker, Soldier, Spy: A Guide to the Key Players in the Trump-Russia Scandal
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -dossiers/
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -dossiers/
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CNN: Manafort indicted
MSNBC: Manafort indicted
FOX: Growing doubts about Mueller after reports he once returned VHS copy of Apollo 13 late
MSNBC: Manafort indicted
FOX: Growing doubts about Mueller after reports he once returned VHS copy of Apollo 13 late
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There is no Trump-Russia scandal. Yawn.
If the Papadapoulos and Manafort items are the big to-dos, then it's a big win for Trump and company. Total and complete bullshit - the "Trump-Russia scandal" that is. Manafort, indeed, may have been up to money laundering and non-disclosure shenanigans, and conspiracy to defraud the US government/tax evasion. Big fucking deal? Maybe. Prosecute, prove the case, and lock the son-of-a-bitch up.
Let's see if the thing is more than arm-twisting to get Manafort to "turn." http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -collusion (throughout the lengthy indictment, no Trump collusion allegations) This case has nothing to do with what Democrats and the media call “the attack on our democracy” (i.e., the Kremlin’s meddling in the 2016 election, supposedly in “collusion” with the Trump campaign). Essentially, Manafort and his associate, Richard W. Gates, are charged with (a) conspiring to conceal from the U.S. government about $75 million they made as unregistered foreign agents for Ukraine, years before the 2016 election (mainly, from 2006 through 2014), and (b) a money-laundering conspiracy.
One big yawn fest.
If the Papadapoulos and Manafort items are the big to-dos, then it's a big win for Trump and company. Total and complete bullshit - the "Trump-Russia scandal" that is. Manafort, indeed, may have been up to money laundering and non-disclosure shenanigans, and conspiracy to defraud the US government/tax evasion. Big fucking deal? Maybe. Prosecute, prove the case, and lock the son-of-a-bitch up.
Let's see if the thing is more than arm-twisting to get Manafort to "turn." http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -collusion (throughout the lengthy indictment, no Trump collusion allegations) This case has nothing to do with what Democrats and the media call “the attack on our democracy” (i.e., the Kremlin’s meddling in the 2016 election, supposedly in “collusion” with the Trump campaign). Essentially, Manafort and his associate, Richard W. Gates, are charged with (a) conspiring to conceal from the U.S. government about $75 million they made as unregistered foreign agents for Ukraine, years before the 2016 election (mainly, from 2006 through 2014), and (b) a money-laundering conspiracy.
One big yawn fest.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Only the beginning
There’s much more to come. Buried in the depths of the Papadopoulos plea is this line: “These facts do not constitute all of the facts known to the parties concerning the charged offense.” In some ways, it’s boilerplate for a federal indictment. In this case, we know it isn’t. The cases unveiled Monday represent only tiny corners of the rocks Mueller has been turning over. There’s still the Trump Tower meeting that involved Manafort and Donald Trump Jr. There’s still Russia’s social media ad buys. There’s still the hacking of the DNC and the theft of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails. There are other suspicious meetings with Russian officials, including those by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, himself.
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A meeting in Trump tower between Trump's campaign director and Trump Jr? Shocking.Tero wrote:Only the beginningThere’s much more to come. Buried in the depths of the Papadopoulos plea is this line: “These facts do not constitute all of the facts known to the parties concerning the charged offense.” In some ways, it’s boilerplate for a federal indictment. In this case, we know it isn’t. The cases unveiled Monday represent only tiny corners of the rocks Mueller has been turning over. There’s still the Trump Tower meeting that involved Manafort and Donald Trump Jr. There’s still Russia’s social media ad buys. There’s still the hacking of the DNC and the theft of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails. There are other suspicious meetings with Russian officials, including those by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, himself.
Russia lawfully bought a few thousand dollars of advertisments on Facebook? Lock someone up!
Hacking of the DNC, which nobody has yet concluded was "hacking" and not "leaking?"
Suspicious meetings with Russian officials? You mean, like Sessions, along with every other Washington elected official, met with the Russian Ambassador at various events and parties? Lawful meetings with a Russian official whose job it is to meet with people?
Come on folks.... watch your step. Be careful not to step in the bullshit.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Sessions lied, voluntarily, under oath. He said he didn't meet the Ambassador, then when he was found out said he met him once on committee business, until the other members of the committee said they knew nothing about it, and he couldn't provide any details about that 'committee business' was, and it turned out he'd met him twice after all - in addition to various events and parties etc. There's no evidence Sessions met the Ambassador in any official capacity, so now you have to make the case that "every other Washington elected official" and representative, as Sessions was at the time, met the Russian Ambassador privately, as Sessions did, to make that one even begin to stick.Sessions, along with every other Washington elected official, met with the Russian Ambassador at various events and parties
Remind me why you're so relaxed about the Russian plutocracy campaigning for Trump again. Is it because of Hillary by any chance?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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If you listen to the whole testimony, it's clear that Sessions was answering based on the context of the question. And, what's the import of the meeting anyway? The guy meets hundreds of foreign officials. I wouldn't expect anyone to remember everyone they meet.
....like for example... Nancy Pelosi -- she said she never met that same Russian Ambassador -- http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump ... le/2616414 - she had, in fact, met with him.
And, why is it improper for Republicans to meet with Russian ambassadors, but not Democrats? Democrats meet with foreign officials all the time. They all do. It's not a problem. There is nothing wrong with it. And, to date, nobody has ever claimed there is anything wrong with it. Sessions stepped in shit by getting caught in either a lie or a misstatement.
You call it a lie - fine -- why in the world would he lie about that? Had he just answered the question "I met with the Russian Ambassador 5 times about various things. Some were at social events, and such. We talked on a couple of occasions about law, politics, and the Russian government's wishes and hopes for US policy and such." What if he had said that? Would that be criminal? Isn't it really odd to think the guy would "lie" intentionally about something that would not in the least be a problem? For what? Especially something this easy to verify. It's not like he tried to hide meeting the ambassador. It took about 24 hours for people to point out that he had actually met the guy.
Anyway - either way - who cares about Sessions? If he gets fired, I'd be happy. The guy's a dickbag. He's Mr. War on Drugs and all that nonsense. Fuck him. I don't care if he gets taken down, but for the love of Pete -- talking to an Ambassador? Any of us can meet Ambassadors. Their job is, in part, to meet people in their host countries. Pick a nasty nation - a college kid can schedule meetings there. If you're in town and want to meet the Swedish, Russian, or Chinese ambassador, or someone representing the ambassador, you can do it. You can call an embassy and talk to officials of world governments anytime you want. I have done it twice -- called one European country's embassy and one South American country's embassy. I have met ambassadors personally. Treason!
....like for example... Nancy Pelosi -- she said she never met that same Russian Ambassador -- http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump ... le/2616414 - she had, in fact, met with him.
And, why is it improper for Republicans to meet with Russian ambassadors, but not Democrats? Democrats meet with foreign officials all the time. They all do. It's not a problem. There is nothing wrong with it. And, to date, nobody has ever claimed there is anything wrong with it. Sessions stepped in shit by getting caught in either a lie or a misstatement.
You call it a lie - fine -- why in the world would he lie about that? Had he just answered the question "I met with the Russian Ambassador 5 times about various things. Some were at social events, and such. We talked on a couple of occasions about law, politics, and the Russian government's wishes and hopes for US policy and such." What if he had said that? Would that be criminal? Isn't it really odd to think the guy would "lie" intentionally about something that would not in the least be a problem? For what? Especially something this easy to verify. It's not like he tried to hide meeting the ambassador. It took about 24 hours for people to point out that he had actually met the guy.
Anyway - either way - who cares about Sessions? If he gets fired, I'd be happy. The guy's a dickbag. He's Mr. War on Drugs and all that nonsense. Fuck him. I don't care if he gets taken down, but for the love of Pete -- talking to an Ambassador? Any of us can meet Ambassadors. Their job is, in part, to meet people in their host countries. Pick a nasty nation - a college kid can schedule meetings there. If you're in town and want to meet the Swedish, Russian, or Chinese ambassador, or someone representing the ambassador, you can do it. You can call an embassy and talk to officials of world governments anytime you want. I have done it twice -- called one European country's embassy and one South American country's embassy. I have met ambassadors personally. Treason!
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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....Republicans to meet with Russian ambassadors..bla bla bla
You are distracting. Manafort, Sessions, Trump, lock them up!
You are distracting. Manafort, Sessions, Trump, lock them up!
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You mean 'why is it improper to secretly meet with the Russian Ambassador and then volunteer a lie about it under oath' surely? And who said it's only improper for Republican representatives to secretly meet foreign officials but not Democrats anyway? Oh that's right, only you.Forty Two wrote:And, why is it improper for Republicans to meet with Russian ambassadors, but not Democrats?
Remind me why you don't care about the Russian plutocracy campaigning for Trump again.
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.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Yeah, nothing to see here. That's why Sessions lied about meeting the Russians.Forty Two wrote:A meeting in Trump tower between Trump's campaign director and Trump Jr? Shocking.Tero wrote:Only the beginningThere’s much more to come. Buried in the depths of the Papadopoulos plea is this line: “These facts do not constitute all of the facts known to the parties concerning the charged offense.” In some ways, it’s boilerplate for a federal indictment. In this case, we know it isn’t. The cases unveiled Monday represent only tiny corners of the rocks Mueller has been turning over. There’s still the Trump Tower meeting that involved Manafort and Donald Trump Jr. There’s still Russia’s social media ad buys. There’s still the hacking of the DNC and the theft of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails. There are other suspicious meetings with Russian officials, including those by Attorney General Jeff Sessions, himself.
Russia lawfully bought a few thousand dollars of advertisments on Facebook? Lock someone up!
Hacking of the DNC, which nobody has yet concluded was "hacking" and not "leaking?"
Suspicious meetings with Russian officials? You mean, like Sessions, along with every other Washington elected official, met with the Russian Ambassador at various events and parties? Lawful meetings with a Russian official whose job it is to meet with people?
Come on folks.... watch your step. Be careful not to step in the bullshit.
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Don't be disingenuous (a wasted plea, I know). The real smoke was the former (and potentially current) Russian spy in that meeting. But I know, where there's smoke there's never ever fire.Forty Two wrote:If you listen to the whole testimony, it's clear that Sessions was answering based on the context of the question. And, what's the import of the meeting anyway? The guy meets hundreds of foreign officials. I wouldn't expect anyone to remember everyone they meet.
....like for example... Nancy Pelosi -- she said she never met that same Russian Ambassador -- http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump ... le/2616414 - she had, in fact, met with him.
And, why is it improper for Republicans to meet with Russian ambassadors, but not Democrats? Democrats meet with foreign officials all the time. They all do. It's not a problem. There is nothing wrong with it. And, to date, nobody has ever claimed there is anything wrong with it. Sessions stepped in shit by getting caught in either a lie or a misstatement.
You call it a lie - fine -- why in the world would he lie about that? Had he just answered the question "I met with the Russian Ambassador 5 times about various things. Some were at social events, and such. We talked on a couple of occasions about law, politics, and the Russian government's wishes and hopes for US policy and such." What if he had said that? Would that be criminal? Isn't it really odd to think the guy would "lie" intentionally about something that would not in the least be a problem? For what? Especially something this easy to verify. It's not like he tried to hide meeting the ambassador. It took about 24 hours for people to point out that he had actually met the guy.
Anyway - either way - who cares about Sessions? If he gets fired, I'd be happy. The guy's a dickbag. He's Mr. War on Drugs and all that nonsense. Fuck him. I don't care if he gets taken down, but for the love of Pete -- talking to an Ambassador? Any of us can meet Ambassadors. Their job is, in part, to meet people in their host countries. Pick a nasty nation - a college kid can schedule meetings there. If you're in town and want to meet the Swedish, Russian, or Chinese ambassador, or someone representing the ambassador, you can do it. You can call an embassy and talk to officials of world governments anytime you want. I have done it twice -- called one European country's embassy and one South American country's embassy. I have met ambassadors personally. Treason!
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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