Epic Correction of the Decade

[Brian Peacock]

I'm not interested in winning or losing. Facts are facts and I try and evaluate them on the balance of likelihood. You questioned the likelihood of lag in the warming cycle and now you're just copping out of explaining what you think you might have actually meant by that.

[JimC]

I had a doctor warn me against casual smoking last week when I went for a check up. Bloody cancer alarmist.

You should never be casual about smoking - always take it fucking seriously...

[mistermack]

I'm not interested in winning or losing. Facts are facts and I try and evaluate them on the balance of likelihood. You questioned the likelihood of lag in the warming cycle and now you're just copping out of explaining what you think you might have actually meant by that.

Oh dear. You would be better off just forgetting it. We all get things wrong.
But since you persist, you claimed that global temperatures will not rise instantly with every additional x-tons of CO2.
If you add one CO2 molecule to the atmosphere, it will instantly start absorbing energy. It will warm. It will warm it's neighbours.
As it and it's neighbours are part of the atmosphere, then yes, that molecule instantly warms the atmosphere.
X tons of CO2 is just lots of molecules of CO2.

There is no lag. What happens to that heat afterwards can't be called a lag. The atmosphere warms first, BEFORE the heat goes elsewhere. With no lag.

Perhaps you are thinking about your farts. There might be a lag before people smell it. I can see how you might get confused.

[rainbow]

There is no lag. What happens to that heat afterwards can't be called a lag. The atmosphere warms first, BEFORE the heat goes elsewhere. With no lag.

Heard of the 'Greenhouse Effect'?

The heat doesn't come from the CO2, it comes from the sun. It is trapped by the CO2 in the atmosphere.
...over time.

a lag.

[mistermack]

There is no lag. What happens to that heat afterwards can't be called a lag. The atmosphere warms first, BEFORE the heat goes elsewhere. With no lag.

Heard of the 'Greenhouse Effect'?

The heat doesn't come from the CO2, it comes from the sun. It is trapped by the CO2 in the atmosphere.
...over time.

a lag.

Absolute bollocks. The greenhouse heat comes from the Earth.
Don't post your your smugs till you actually know something. If you don't want to look a dick.

[Woodbutcher]

There is no lag. What happens to that heat afterwards can't be called a lag. The atmosphere warms first, BEFORE the heat goes elsewhere. With no lag.

Heard of the 'Greenhouse Effect'?

The heat doesn't come from the CO2, it comes from the sun. It is trapped by the CO2 in the atmosphere.
...over time.

a lag.

Absolute bollocks. The greenhouse heat comes from the Earth.
Don't post your your smugs till you actually know something. If you don't want to look a dick.

Fucking sun's radiation hits earth, heats it. Radiation wavelength changes, and upon rising gets blocked by the greenhouse gases. The radiation energy comes from the sun, misterdick.

[mistermack]

Fucking sun's radiation hits earth, heats it. Radiation wavelength changes, and upon rising gets blocked by the greenhouse gases. The radiation energy comes from the sun, misterdick.

Oh right.


Where do you come from ??

[Animavore]

Jesus Christ. You can't even get the basics right and you still think you know more than climate scientists.

The heat comes from the Sun.

[mistermack]

Jesus Christ. You can't even get the basics right and you still think you know more than climate scientists.

The_green_house_effect.svg.png

The heat comes from the Sun.

That's right. And my money comes from the Bank of England. Hope they don't ask for it back.

[Animavore]

Jesus Christ. You can't even get the basics right and you still think you know more than climate scientists.

The_green_house_effect.svg.png

The heat comes from the Sun.

That's right. And my money comes from the Bank of England. Hope they don't ask for it back.

Genesis 1:16. God made two great lights - the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.

^That's you, that is. That's your reasoning.

[Woodbutcher]

Jesus Christ. You can't even get the basics right and you still think you know more than climate scientists.

The_green_house_effect.svg.png

The heat comes from the Sun.

That's right. And my money comes from the Bank of England. Hope they don't ask for it back.

That is the dumbest statement ever! A non-sequitur! Someone with your intelligence is hard to insult. (What I mean by that is that you would not understand a subtle or a veiled (hidden) insult so that the only way to do it is to call you something from your familiar frame of reference, like a poopyhead or a nocturnal emission).

[JimC]

In some ways, mm is correct, simply that when you add X tons of CO2 to the atmosphere, you get an immediate warming effect in the atmosphere (something I'm glad he admits, actually). The debate of the heat being from the Sun or from the Earth is childish - the incoming short-wavength infra-red radiation is absorbed by the Earth, heating it. Then, it re-radiates this heat in the form of long wavelength IR, a certain proportion of which is absorbed by Greenhouse Gases.

The lag itself is due to various heat transfer mechanisms - a significant amount of the heat ends up slowly warming the oceans and melting glaciers. A major issue which mm might not realise is that the oceans have an ability to absorb a considerable amount of CO2, and have done so (with some serious consequences for organisms like coral due to the subsequent increase in acidity). However, as they warm, they can absorb less and less of the extra CO2, and may in fact start releasing some of it back into the atmosphere. The connections between all these factors are complex and dynamic, and require extremely complex modelling to assist predictions of future change. I suspect it is the inherent complexity of the models, and the fact that laymen cannot easily understand them is responsible for much of the denial (as well as a definite hint of Galaxian-like conspiracy theory...)

[Brian Peacock]

Fucking sun's radiation hits earth, heats it. Radiation wavelength changes, and upon rising gets blocked by the greenhouse gases. The radiation energy comes from the sun, misterdick.

Oh right.


Where do you come from ??

So, along with the aforementioned lag in the warming cycle, are you also denying the basic premises of the greenhouse effect now?

[Brian Peacock]

In some ways, mm is correct, simply that when you add X tons of CO2 to the atmosphere, you get an immediate warming effect in the atmosphere (something I'm glad he admits, actually). The debate of the heat being from the Sun or from the Earth is childish - the incoming short-wavength infra-red radiation is absorbed by the Earth, heating it. Then, it re-radiates this heat in the form of long wavelength IR, a certain proportion of which is absorbed by Greenhouse Gases.

The lag itself is due to various heat transfer mechanisms - a significant amount of the heat ends up slowly warming the oceans and melting glaciers. A major issue which mm might not realise is that the oceans have an ability to absorb a considerable amount of CO2, and have done so (with some serious consequences for organisms like coral due to the subsequent increase in acidity). However, as they warm, they can absorb less and less of the extra CO2, and may in fact start releasing some of it back into the atmosphere. The connections between all these factors are complex and dynamic, and require extremely complex modelling to assist predictions of future change. I suspect it is the inherent complexity of the models, and the fact that laymen cannot easily understand them is responsible for much of the denial (as well as a definite hint of Galaxian-like conspiracy theory...)

"The subtle and complex problems that we face will require subtle and complex solutions, so we need people capable of having subtle and complex thoughts." -- Carl Sagan.

[JimC]

IMO, gin is a superb catalyst for "subtle and complex thoughts"...