We need to talk about Donald – the Nightmare continues

[Forty Two]

LOL, the Democrats real complaint is that the Russians preferred Trump over them. If Wikileaks had exposed how the Republican party lied and cheated through the primaries, and had people passing debate questions to a candidate, and had Republican operatives caught on tape talking about busing in voters and doing whatever it took to stuff the ballot boxes, and if the head of the GOP was lying to the public saying the party was neutral on the primaries, but it came out that they were actually in the tank for and rigging things in favor of donald Trump - that would actually be a big story in the media. Instead, the story is that the Russians are the problem for exposing how the Democrats were up to shady activities....it was the Russians, even though we have no evidence it was the Russians, it had to be the Russians because the methods were consistent with the methods used by people who are said by undisclosed sources as having "links" to Russian entities.... rock solid.

[pErvinalia]

There is, of course, on the one hand, no evidence whatsoever of voter fraud,...

Donald says there was voter fraud

[pErvinalia]

Instead, the story is that the Russians are the problem for exposing how the Democrats were up to shady activities....

For the purposes of pushing the vote in a way that was more favourable to Russia. The apologetics from the right for the attack on your democratic election process by a foreign authoritarian regime is stunning.

[Forty Two]

There is, of course, on the one hand, no evidence whatsoever of voter fraud,...

Donald says there was voter fraud

You should read that part as sarcasm - the democrats say "there is no evidence of voter fraud." But, the Russians committed voter fraud by rigging the election. Well, they don't say "voter fraud" - because, somehow, the Russians rigged the election without committing any fraud, I guess.

It all makes sense somehow, if you don't think about it too much.

[Forty Two]

Instead, the story is that the Russians are the problem for exposing how the Democrats were up to shady activities....

For the purposes of pushing the vote in a way that was more favourable to Russia.

LOL - so? One, there isn't any evidence that Russia actually did anything here, and Wikileaks says that Russia was not the source of the material.

How the fuck is a Republican Presidency more favorable to Russia anyway. Up until this whole 2016 bullshit "Trump is in league with the Russians" the mantra for 30 fucking years was that the Republicans were too hard on the Russians, and that the Russians were not the bogeyman the Republicans always made them out to be. The Republicans were the ones saying the Russians were the enemy, and the Democrats were like, no way, reset, we can work with the Russians.

It's only that they needed some reason other than "someone leaked a bunch of material to wikileaks and it's true and it makes look like lying scumbags" - that they concocted this whole Russian crock-of-shit. It just strains credulity. The argument is that long before anyone actually thought Trump had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Republican primary, Putin, in his prescience, saw the opportunity, and he got in league with Trump. Before Trump was even clinched as the nominee, they hacked the DNC and exposed some of the damning material, thinking it would help Trump, not other Republicans. Then they kept doing it, all while every major media outlet, every major pundit, and almost all the polling seemed to show that Trump had no way to win. MSNBC was mapping out that Trump, even on his best day, could not possibly win. But, the Russians knew that by just exposing these emails, they could swing the election....AND that it would be better to have the Republican Party - long the more staunch opponent of the Russians - than the Democrats in power, even though the Democrats have been traditionally much softer on foreign policy issues and much more pro Russia.

The apologetics from the right for the attack on your democratic election process by a foreign authoritarian regime is stunning.

What attack? When I see evidence of an "attack" I'll be outraged by it.

Exposing DNC emails and showing us, the voters, the true colors of the Democrat Party operatives is not an attack on the democratic process. The democratic process does not depend on the security of nefarious confidences.

Moreover, there is literally no evidence that has been made public to date that says the Russians did it. None. Zip. Zilch nada. And there is not a shred of evidence of any hacking having occurred, and nothing that impacted the ballot box.

The "influence" that is being muddled with the lingo about hacks and leaks and whatnot, is the Russia Today news propaganda, and the Russian hiring of bloggers and such - all perfectly legal activities. The only influence that has been confirmed is influence that is allowed in a free country. Russia is allowed to publish propaganda, just like everyone else.

[pErvinalia]

Instead, the story is that the Russians are the problem for exposing how the Democrats were up to shady activities....

For the purposes of pushing the vote in a way that was more favourable to Russia.

LOL - so?

You really need to ask that? Seriously? An authoritarian regime trying to swing your election only generates a "so" out of you?

One, there isn't any evidence that Russia actually did anything here,

Comey testified that it's almost a certainty that Russia did it.

How the fuck is a Republican Presidency more favorable to Russia anyway.

A Trump presidency is clearly more favourable to Russia. Not least because of a lifting of sanctions. And haven't you noticed how friendly Trump is being to fascists and/or dictators around the world (including Putin)?

Up until this whole 2016 bullshit "Trump is in league with the Russians" the mantra for 30 fucking years was that the Republicans were too hard on the Russians, and that the Russians were not the bogeyman the Republicans always made them out to be. The Republicans were the ones saying the Russians were the enemy, and the Democrats were like, no way, reset, we can work with the Russians.

Don't be disingenuous. You are the first person to inform everyone that Trump isn't a mainstream Republican and that the Republican establishment hates him. Trump clearly doesn't represent Republicanism of the last 30 years.

It's only that they needed some reason other than "someone leaked a bunch of material to wikileaks and it's true and it makes look like lying scumbags" - that they concocted this whole Russian crock-of-shit. It just strains credulity.

Yet multiple government bodies are conducting investigations into it. But sure, you know more than them. Black is white, after all.

The argument is that long before anyone actually thought Trump had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Republican primary, Putin, in his prescience, saw the opportunity, and he got in league with Trump. Before Trump was even clinched as the nominee, they hacked the DNC and exposed some of the damning material, thinking it would help Trump, not other Republicans. Then they kept doing it, all while every major media outlet, every major pundit, and almost all the polling seemed to show that Trump had no way to win. MSNBC was mapping out that Trump, even on his best day, could not possibly win. But, the Russians knew that by just exposing these emails, they could swing the election....AND that it would be better to have the Republican Party - long the more staunch opponent of the Russians - than the Democrats in power, even though the Democrats have been traditionally much softer on foreign policy issues and much more pro Russia.

They could have easily had information on both sides and multiple candidates to cover different outcomes.

The apologetics from the right for the attack on your democratic election process by a foreign authoritarian regime is stunning.

What attack? When I see evidence of an "attack" I'll be outraged by it.

Bullshit. You don't even want an investigation. This is all about outrage for you and republicans, probably to help distract from the realisation in your heads that you backed an absolute moron for President.

Exposing DNC emails and showing us, the voters, the true colors of the Democrat Party operatives is not an attack on the democratic process. The democratic process does not depend on the security of nefarious confidences.

So you're fine with foreign powers hacking your confidential systems and trying to install governments more to their liking? You don't really think that. You are just putting on an outrage show.

Moreover, there is literally no evidence that has been made public to date that says the Russians did it. None. Zip. Zilch nada. And there is not a shred of evidence of any hacking having occurred, and nothing that impacted the ballot box.

You rebutted yourself. Thanks for not making me do it.

The "influence" that is being muddled with the lingo about hacks and leaks and whatnot, is the Russia Today news propaganda, and the Russian hiring of bloggers and such - all perfectly legal activities. The only influence that has been confirmed is influence that is allowed in a free country. Russia is allowed to publish propaganda, just like everyone else.

Who said they weren't?

[Brian Peacock]

[Alan B]

How is it physically possible for the Russians (or any other country) to 'attack', 'interfere', 'hack' the American voting process?

Is it because ALL the voting machines are networked and connected to the internet so that any hacker can, with a bit of nous, hack into the system no matter how rigorous the protection?

[pErvinalia]

I think most of them are non-electronic. There is the potential to hack the electronic ones, I suppose. Another possibility is fiddling with voter registers.

[DRSB]

If the Russians are so almighty, why did they let Obama win two mandates?

[Brian Peacock]

Because they didn't have anyone to carry their lunchbox?

[Brian Peacock]

I think most of them are non-electronic. There is the potential to hack the electronic ones, I suppose. Another possibility is fiddling with voter registers.

Or hacking the datalinks once the votes are counted...

• if (total % 5 === 0) ++total

[pErvinalia]

If the Russians are so almighty, why did they let Obama win two mandates?

Well he did nothing to stop them invading Ukraine.

[Scot Dutchy]

I think most of them are non-electronic. There is the potential to hack the electronic ones, I suppose. Another possibility is fiddling with voter registers.

The vote was tipped in three swing states and that is all that is needed. Joe Kennedy knew that.

[Forty Two]

If the Russians are so almighty, why did they let Obama win two mandates?

Well, Obama was carrying their water for them. That's why he was all about being kindly to the Russians, and wanted to "reset" the US relationship with them after the bad Bush years. Remember how he laughed at Romney when Romney said the Russians were the biggest foreign policy danger, and Obama laughed and said "the 1980s called, and they want their foreign policy back."

It was the Russian hacking and nefarious doings that overcame the Republican ownership of all the Diebold voting machines and such, so that instead of the Republicans stealing the election, the Russians clearly stole the election from the Republican election thieves and installed Obama.

Must be, because you know, the Russians. They, like, are distributing propaganda, and the people that hacked into the DNC were, like, using hacking methods that hackers use, including but not limited to hackers that have been reported, by anonymous sources who say they're in a position to know, to have been associated with some Russians.