Another London terror attack

[NineBerry]

I don't disagree with what you say about promoting secularism - I made that very point earlier. What I'm addressing here is the toxic doctrine of violence that sits at the centre of Islam, and how we might positively encourage Muslims to jettison it safely.

You are not going to solve the issue of violence by going around and telling Muslims that the terrorists are the ones with the correct interpretation.

[Hermit]

The threat posed is simply not high enough to do more extreme stuff.

The main objections to more extreme stuff are twofold. 1) It engenders more oppressive governments in societies that seek protection from terrorism. 2) It is counter-productive.

The only meaningful effect terror has on society is derived from society's reaction. If we didn't react that hysterical, it would not have much of an effect.

That's rubbish. While the terrorists do aim to provoke hysterical reactions precisely because they help their cause, there are numerous very real additional effects. Tens of thousands of individuals have been killed. Hundreds of thousands of their families are emotionally and materially affected by that. Millions of people have quite reasonably become apprehensive or downright fearful of stepping out into public spaces or attending public events.

I think you'll find he was referring to the West.

No, tens of thousands of individuals have not been killed by terrorism in the West recently. Especially when looking at these low-effort attacks in the recent years, the effect is very low compared to a lot of other deadly dangers we face in our daily lives.

And being fearful of stepping out into public or attending public events is not reasonable. The risk of being affected by terrorism is extreme low. There are so many public events. Even a small city has multiple events every day. There are hundreds of events that could attract a terrorist every day in each larger city. The risk of dying in a traffic accident on the way to a concert is much higher than the risk of dying at a concert because of a terrorist attack.

Good points. While looking for some actual statistics concerning them I discovered that Islamic terrorist attacks in Europe are not just statistically insignificant in comparison to Islamic terrorist attacks in the Middle East and Asia. They are insignificant even in comparison to all other terrorist attacks in Europe.



I can kind of predict the general gist of our alleged moderate's response once he has ginuinely recovered from his encounter with Miz Juniper.

[NineBerry]

One must acknowledge that Islamist terrorist attacks in the West are more likely to cause casualties than attacks by other groups who often only target property.

[Galaxian]

Don't worry, NineBerry has the same powers and many more!

Then you should show these powers. If you watch that excellent presentation & analysis by Prof. James Fetzer it will be clear to any highly sentient organism that the only terrorist attacks are those ordered by the government or done by their rogue agencies.

The methods used are many & varied. Even brainwashed, duped, threatened, or bribed patsies are used. The methods are used internationally, both in foreign war theaters & domestically. But there are normally clues left around, many of them deliberate so as to rub your nose in the shit and tell you, "You have NO power to do ANYTHING against us! See, you don't even recognize the clues we left to show you that you're being led by the nose, like the cattle you are!"

Look at how many THOUSANDS of slavish officials simply obey their orders & turn a blind eye to the murders and plots that they carry out, to keep their jobs, to stay alive a day longer, to accept the payoffs, to steer clear of arguments & problems.

Humans are a lower form of intelligence. They can only go about their menial duties, in a state of abject stupor. They are easy to manipulate & control by those born to rule, for whom they will mindlessly die singly or in droves. That is why people are soon to be replaced by a higher species. That is why they will barely object as they scurry about in confusion, still worshiping their rulers who are leading them into oblivion...

[NineBerry]

NineBerry can speak of himself using the third person. That is about the only power Galaxian has.

[pErvinalia]

And posting crackpot videos.

[NineBerry]

That's not a power, that's a bug.

[laklak]

Of fucking course Islam is the fucking problem, or at least a YUGE portion of it. Go live in the Mideast for a while. Go live in a supposedly "liberal" Islamic theocracy like Bahrain, where you can eat bacon, get a Russian hooker, and drink Chivas Regal till you puke in your ghutrah. Live there for 3 years and then come back and talk to me about Islam. All the bullshit they spout, all the sexism, all the homophobia, the draconian "justice" system, all of it is religious. ALL of it. There is no separation, religion IS government, religion IS society, religion is every-fucking-thing. Hence the term "theocracy", I suppose, but it goes even further than just a theocratic government. Until you live in it you do not realize how all encompassing Islam is, how it affects every single thing you do every single day. And the thing is, they like it that way. Oh yeah, you get the odd bunch of students who hold up a sign, and are then whisked off to Never-Never Land by the Bahraini Internal Security Police (whose top officer is a white ex-SAS Brit), but the rank and file are not only A-OK with the whole set-up, they wouldn't have it any other way. It is so unlike "radical Christianity" (like what a lot of people assume we in the Southern U.S. live under) that it's fucking laughable.

[Brian Peacock]

Indeed.

Humans are a lower form of intelligence. They can only go about their menial duties, in a state of abject stupor.

Are you human?

[JimC]

I don't disagree with what you say about promoting secularism - I made that very point earlier. What I'm addressing here is the toxic doctrine of violence that sits at the centre of Islam, and how we might positively encourage Muslims to jettison it safely.

Agreed, but I think the real problem is that far too many moderate muslims and muslim leaders refuse to recognise "the toxic doctrine of violence that sits at the centre of Islam". Until they do, and vow to help stamp it out, they will not be helping to either reduce the terrorist attacks, or the very real possibility of a serious right-wing-lead backlash against their whole communities. Start looking at letters to papers, folks - it makes for scary reading...

[JimC]

No, tens of thousands of individuals have not been killed by terrorism in the West recently. Especially when looking at these low-effort attacks in the recent years, the effect is very low compared to a lot of other deadly dangers we face in our daily lives.

And being fearful of stepping out into public or attending public events is not reasonable. The risk of being affected by terrorism is extreme low. There are so many public events. Even a small city has multiple events every day. There are hundreds of events that could attract a terrorist every day in each larger city. The risk of dying in a traffic accident on the way to a concert is much higher than the risk of dying at a concert because of a terrorist attack.

Do you seriously think you are going to convince Joe Public not to worry about the possibility of dying in a terrorist attack by quoting statistics about the probability of dying from various other causes? That mantra from the left ain't got any traction at all in the minds of the public, nor should it.

[NineBerry]

It definitely should, because it would mean the public being rational. However, I know that humans on average are dumb fucks. That's, why liberalism doesn't work.

My point remains: terrorism is only effective by how we react to it. And in general I don't think that a lot of people actually do change their behaviour. I don't see concerts being cancelled or inner city areas missing visitors.

[JimC]

It definitely should, because it would mean the public being rational. However, I know that humans on average are dumb fucks. That's, why liberalism doesn't work.

My point remains: terrorism is only effective by how we react to it. And in general I don't think that a lot of people actually do change their behaviour. I don't see concerts being cancelled or inner city areas missing visitors.

I agree they shouldn't change their behaviour - that would mean they were cowed by terrorists...

But I do think it is utterly reasonable for people to be very, very angry. If they believe that nothing effective is being done, then that anger could lead in a very difficult direction, but if action by both governments and the broader islamic community is widely seen to be doing the job, it won't...

[NineBerry]

You have watched too many American movies where getting angry is the first step to solving a problem. But anger is the first step in the staircase to hell. That's what Buddha would have said.

[JimC]

Buddha can get fucked, the lazy cunt!