Leftist Riot Du Jour - UC Berkeley

[Hermit]

There is no choice but to civilly discuss ideas when the people advancing those ideas are likewise remaining civil. It is never acceptable to respond to peaceful, civil expression with violence. If you suggest that "fascists" who are expressing their ideas by say, writing an article, or standing on a soapbox in the middle of the town square are fair game for punching, then so to are communists, anarchists, and black bloc members are fair game. All one has to do is decide that the ideas being propagated are dangerous and a threat to well-being, and it provides as much justification as beating up fascists.

Nobody says you have to discuss anything with them. You can ignore them. You can yell and scream, and you can protest. Do what you want. But, no, you can't initiate violence against them.

A book named Mein Kampf is not in any way a reason to initiate force against Hitler and anyone who supports him. I read Mein Kampf in the local lending library. Should I have destroyed the book? Should I have punched the manager of the library?

This notion of yours is absurd, and no thinking person after the Enlightenment can hold it. You hate fascists, well so what? Fuck you. They hate you too, probably. And, maybe they think you're the dangerous one. So what is it now? A free for all? You want everyone to be allowed to beat up the supporters of ideas they think are hateful and evil? Or, are you suggesting that there is some objective mechanism to determine which ideas are actually going to be the ones that can get beaten up? The State is going to decide this? That would be absurd, wouldn't it -- since the State is usually the entity that does the oppressing and censoring, right?

When I hear this argument, it reminds of when I was a kid, and people would get asked the question "do you believe in free speech?" And, most everyone would say yes, but when the question was followed by "should a communist have free speech to spread their ideas?" A large percentage of people would say "no." To me, communism is an awful, hateful, terrible idea, and it is an insult to human dignity. Yet, I would never conclude that it should be appropriate to beat up communists for that reason. But, based on your logic, shouldn't it be o.k. to kick communists in the nuts and beat them down? After all, they're a danger to society.

And, who are you to say that "trump and his aides are not yet in the position where that can be said of them?" There is no arbiter, other than each individual, to say who is and is not a white supremacist -- I've heard it said of Trump and Bannon. Aren't they white supremacists? If I think they are, should I punch them in the face? Or, is there a vote we're going to take, or a legislative session, or a "Bureau of People We can Punch in the Face" which is going to determine which alleged Nazis and fascists and white supremacists are fair game?

You have not understood the gist of what I said. Rephrasing: The fact that mistakes were made dealing with Hitler's regime in the 1930s is not an argument that Nazis must not be punched in the nose.

[Brian Peacock]

"Those who advocate violence invite it upon themselves."
- Brian Peacock

[pErvinalia]

It's just the reality of the world. If you (singular or group) don't stand up for what you believe in then you will be run over by someone else's beliefs.

[Forty Two]

Indeed, however, "standing up for what you believe" generally does not mean "beating the shit out of people who say things you don't like."

Do the squishy lefty, safe space, microaggression bemoaning folks really want to go toe-to-toe with Nazis, fascists and white supremacists, anyway? Maybe the Twitter-gave-me-PTSD-ers think they have the numbers now, and can overwhelm the Nazis with sheer volume. However, extreme right-wing folks who really fit the definition of Nazi and fascist tend to be rather good at violence. So, I would think a rule that says "you can say what you want, and they can say what they want, and nobody can lawfully beat each other up" would make sense more for the lily-livered someone-asked-me-where-I'm-REALLY-from-so-I need-a-coloring-book-to-calm-down folks.

:-)

https://www.aclu.org/other/hate-speech-campus

[Forty Two]

Fucking scumbags http://time.com/4690735/charles-murray- ... y-protest/

“His invitation to campus, then, is not an educational opportunity, but a threat,” the alumni letter said. “It is a message to every woman, every person of color, every first-generation student, every poor and working-class person, every disabled person and every queer person that not only their acceptance to and presence at Middlebury, but also their safety, their agency, their humanity and even their very right to exist are all up for ‘debate.'”

What these absolute ignoramuses seem to not be able to fathom is that they don't "get to" force other people to refrain from debating even topics they don't think are debatable. Fuck these asshole fascist anti-free speech "progressives." Look - everybody's "very right to exist" is, in fact, "up for debate." If they want to hold a debate about the right of people to exist, they can. If they want to hold a debate on whether some people have greater rights to exist than others, they can.

To forcibly disrupt a peaceful discussion is wrong, illiberal, intolerant, and what totalitarians do. In the the parlance of the progressive "you don't get to" forcibly shut people down.

The next step in handling these absolute shitheads is to act in self defense. If one of these pansies pushes or shoves or grabs, beat them into submission. Self defense is permitted. However, when so called "progressives" initiate force, if people respond in kind the media tend to portray it as the fault of the person who was attacked by the fuckwit "progressive." That's gotta stop. People need to force the issue now. Start beating the shit out of aggressor progressives.

These cocknockers want to fight. Let's send them crying to their safe spaces and coloring books with some bruises.

Don't let the inmates run the asylum.

[laklak]

[L'Emmerdeur]

Let's send them crying to their safe spaces and coloring books with some bruises.

Who is the "us" implied here, Forty Two?

[Forty Two]

Let's send them crying to their safe spaces and coloring books with some bruises.

Who is the "us" implied here, Forty Two?

"Them" are the douchebags who like to punch and shut down people with whom they disagree. There are many other groups besides "them," not just a single "us."

I must say, the boiling point is not far off. These fucking warriors against "hate speech" who give themselves the right to punch people they say are supporters of fascism are going to punch the wrong person soon. And when they get their heads handed to them I think a lot of gold are going to clap loudly and approvingly. No finger snaps. Clapping.

[Brian Peacock]

"..a lot of gold are going to clap.." What's 'gold'? Is it shorthand for good-old-boys?

[L'Emmerdeur]

"Them" are the douchebags who like to punch and shut down people with whom they disagree. There are many other groups besides "them," not just a single "us."

I must say, the boiling point is not far off. These fucking warriors against "hate speech" who give themselves the right to punch people they say are supporters of fascism are going to punch the wrong person soon. And when they get their heads handed to them I think a lot of gold are going to clap loudly and approvingly. No finger snaps. Clapping.

Ah, you mean like this?

[Tero]

Rightist riot at Berkeley
https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl= ... #pt0-27264


I blame Trump. Every person shooting or hitting other person this year, Trump!

Saturday’s “March 4 Trump” rally, one of several held across the country, began at Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park about 2 p.m.

The Trump supporters marched several blocks but were met by a group of counter-demonstrators, and fights began breaking out, according to Matthai Chakko, a spokesman for the city of Berkeley.

Videos and photos posted on Twitter showed people punching each other and pulling their hair, with one man using an unidentified object to beat another person. Several people in the crowd were pepper-sprayed, including an elderly man.

[Tero]

Me responding to that link elsewhere:

Yes but this divisiveness is personified in Trump. He is not a peacemaker. So virtually every action by Trump leads to a deeper divide.

Through the Clinton Bush Obama era, we were not hostile to immigrants.

[Tero]

Poster elsewhere claimed Ferguson and Baltimore were the same as Trump riots. My response:

Ferguson is a working class town that has not done well since the nearby car plants closed down. It's a township just across the interstate from St Louis. The city campus of the univeristy, UMSL, is right there. Much of the commmunity there is black.

The situation there was tense and the law enforenent run badly. The nearby big city has lots of crime. I tried to not drive thru there at night. My job was 3 miles away.

The problems there are to be solved at the local level. Kobs for those with a high school diploma just are not there.

What was Obama supposed to do that Missouri could not do?

Country wide riots and protests currently are caused by a president who is not very presidential. Different situation. Ferguson: local problems, poir education and no way out.

[Forty Two]

You have not understood the gist of what I said. Rephrasing: The fact that mistakes were made dealing with Hitler's regime in the 1930s is not an argument that Nazis must not be punched in the nose.

Well, I never argued that such mistakes were arguments that Nazis must not be punched in the nose. The argument that Nazis must not be punched in the nose is merely that Nazis are to be treated the same as everyone else under the law, meaning that nobody gets to punch them in the nose because of the nature of their ideas.

[Forty Two]

"Them" are the douchebags who like to punch and shut down people with whom they disagree. There are many other groups besides "them," not just a single "us."

I must say, the boiling point is not far off. These fucking warriors against "hate speech" who give themselves the right to punch people they say are supporters of fascism are going to punch the wrong person soon. And when they get their heads handed to them I think a lot of gold are going to clap loudly and approvingly. No finger snaps. Clapping.

Ah, you mean like this?

Yes. Like the article says, the TWP had a permit to hold their rally and another group showed up to stop them from being able to carry out their permit.

It was unclear which groups the injured were associated with, McPhail said.

Yvette Felarca, who said she was a member of the group By Any Means Necessary, told CNN she came out to let people know that racist and anti-immigrant viewpoints would not be tolerated.

I like it how Yvette thinks she gets to determine what views are to be tolerated in public discourse. Fuck her. "anti-immigrant" view points? What the fuck? So, she's saying any viewpoint that is against immigration is something that "will not be tolerated?" Who the hell is she? What does it mean not to "tolerate" the viewpoint? If it's shutting down the permitted rally and attacking the "anti-immigrant viewpoint" holders, then she can fuck right off.

People need to start responding to fuckwits like Yvette by declaring that anti-free speech viewpoints like those held by Yvette will not be tolerated.... we won't tolerate you, Yvette. You're out. We're going to shut you down, and given your views, you should be punched in the face.

"They're not welcome," she said of the TWP rally. "If they trip and fall in the process, good. We succeeded in shutting them down."

Same to you, Yvette. Same to you. If some unfortunate "accident" befalls you, well, you're intolerable, so we're not going to tolerate you. And, you're not welcome here.

"The anti-fascists used knives, bottles, bricks, and chunks of concrete they broke off a construction site. When they attacked, our men defended themselves to be able to drive the attackers off," he said.

Heimbach appeared on television news reports about a March 1 Donald Trump rally in Louisville, Kentucky, at which anti-Trump demonstrators were harassed.

A federal lawsuit filed against Trump, Heimbach and others alleges Heimbach shoved a woman protester and shouted "leftist scum" at her.

The same dickfaces that scream about how awesome it is to punch people for their viewpoints are filing suit because they were pushed and (correctly) called "leftist scum".... that's rich. One can hardly get more hypocritical. Look folks, if you want to call someone out to "step outside" you don't sue them if they punch you. These fucking leftist scum think they get to do the punching (probably because they view themselves as "marginalized" and "punching up"), but nobody gets to push back? Fuck off, scumbags.

Art Roderick, a CNN law enforcement analyst, said it's common for opposing groups to hold simultaneous protests, but law enforcement usually keeps them separate. It appears the counter-protesters simply overwhelmed the TWP, he said.

"They (the counter-protesters) were there for one reason and that was to use violence to break the other group up," Roderick said. "It looks like anywhere from 100 to 200 of them showed up against 30 of the other."

Indeed -- and as more of this happens, the leftists scum are going to start going home with bruises.