The suzerain Trump

[Tero]

We chanted outside the glass enclosing the luncheon: Deb Fischer, you work for us. She did her best to ignore us. Her office gave the press a statement: "Deb Fischer holds over 200 opportunities a year to hear from you."

[JimC]

You are such a rebel, Tero!

[Tero]

Some media coverage
http://www.klkntv.com/story/34562996/hu ... er-tuesday

[Brian Peacock]

Well there's a point to make there Tero: Our elected representatives are accountable to the people who elected them, not the people who paid for their advertising. Even Trump supporters can see that this form of Crony Capitalism is not just side-lining the electorate, but actually shows contempt for the principle of democratic representation. Your elected representatives should have met with their constituents before they even considered meeting their backers. That sort of behaviour stinks of political elitism. Press that point home with Trumps supporters - after all, it's exactly what they voted against. Once you get Trump supporters chanting along with you a better, more functional democracy is significantly closer.

Show me a cynic and I'll show you a disappointed idealist.

The trouble with this analysis, Brian, rational and humanistic as it is, it makes the assumption that Trump supporters are calm and rational enough to step back and see the broader picture. In truth, many of them, for the foreseeable future, will continue to wallow in the ugly and primitive emotions that motivated their choice of vote, and delight in the vicious attacks on the media and all Trump's other targets.

I'm sure Tero can find a way to make the general point, to which your average Trump supporter will almost certainly agree, and then he can relate how it might actually apply to your local representative. Eh? You tell them it's not about 'us-and-them' politics, it about 'all-of-us-together' politics. If Trump supporters weren't already disaffected by politics they wouldnt've voted Trump. Trump has done nothing for them, and he never will - they'll start to notice soon enough. If it means mobilising the divergences of the Trump supporters then start planting those seeds now - and get cracking, campaigning for mid-terms starts in 12 moths.

Check out those websites from FAD.

[Tero]

I don't understand any if the Trump votets I've met. One said he was defending the constitution. I thought maybe he meant guns or white Christians.

[Brian Peacock]

It's a bit like de-conversion: you start on a small thing that is obvious - defending the constitution relies on secure democratic institutions and honest agents. If the operators of democratic institutions are not honest then the constitution is weakened, which threatens the rights and well-being of everyone, regardless of which colour pendant you stick to your car at election time.

[JimC]

It's a bit like de-conversion: you start on a small thing that is obvious - defending the constitution relies on secure democratic institutions and honest agents. If the operators of democratic institutions are not honest then the constitution is weakened, which threatens the rights and well-being of everyone, regardless of which colour pendant you stick to your car at election time.

Brian, your middle name must be Optimism...

[mistermack]

What's absolutely stunning about Trump, is where he's getting his information from.
He goes on national tv, and yaks about something he saw on Fock's News as if it were fact.

Hell's bells, what if fock's news announced that the Russians had just fired their missiles?

You would think that the president of the US would just have to say, "check this" and it would be done. He seems to be too fucking stupid to even do that.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah. Pretty scary really.

[Brian Peacock]

It's a bit like de-conversion: you start on a small thing that is obvious - defending the constitution relies on secure democratic institutions and honest agents. If the operators of democratic institutions are not honest then the constitution is weakened, which threatens the rights and well-being of everyone, regardless of which colour pendant you stick to your car at election time.

Brian, your middle name must be Optimism...

Everyone, even Republicans and Trump supporters, are susceptible to reason. Voting Republican isn't a form of mental illness. One simply needs to find and then make the nonpartisan general point on which voters can agree, and then challenge them to apply that to the candidates. The main problem is that while this seems to apply political discourse has been reduced almost entirely to fallacious ad homs, strawmen and fear-appeals - and this has happened because the ends, getting elected, is seen to justify the means, relying on intellectually dishonest tactics.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not sure that everyone is susceptible to reason. Some are clearly far far less susceptible than others.

[Tero]

"Voting Republican isn't a form of mental illness. "


Not quite. But here it means: I don't need the government telling me what to spend my money on. I can spend it myself.

[Svartalf]

It's a bit like de-conversion: you start on a small thing that is obvious - defending the constitution relies on secure democratic institutions and honest agents. If the operators of democratic institutions are not honest then the constitution is weakened, which threatens the rights and well-being of everyone, regardless of which colour pendant you stick to your car at election time.

Brian, your middle name must be Optimism...

Everyone, even Republicans and Trump supporters, are susceptible to reason. Voting Republican isn't a form of mental illness. One simply needs to find and then make the nonpartisan general point on which voters can agree, and then challenge them to apply that to the candidates. The main problem is that while this seems to apply political discourse has been reduced almost entirely to fallacious ad homs, strawmen and fear-appeals - and this has happened because the ends, getting elected, is seen to justify the means, relying on intellectually dishonest tactics.

If trump were susceptible to reason, he'd have toned down his outrageousness after being elected, or at worst after assuming power... he has not, and he goes on advocating stuff that ranges from the silly to the barbarous based on data that is all alternative fact from officially uncreditable sources that acknowledge they are ideologues and not interested in truth.
If his supporterq were, they'd have stopped supporting him.

[Tero]

One senator on board to investigate Trump

Senate may force Trump to turn over tax returns
Fox News-8 hours ago
U.S. Sen. Susan Collins said on Wednesday she's open to using a subpoena to investigate President Donald Trump's tax returns for potential ...
Key US Senator Open To Subpoena Of Trump Records In Russia ...
RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty-11 hours ago

Republican US senator: I'm open to subpoena of Trump's taxes
Minneapolis Star Tribune-15 hours ago

Sen. Collins: Trump Tax Returns Could Be Subpoenaed for Russia ...
Newsmax-13 hours ago

[Tero]

Go Susan Collins!