The suzerain Trump

[Forty Two]

Once again comparing apples and oranges. Illegals are something else. People who have official green cards and visa's are being refused entry to America. People who already have lived there for years and have made a life there. You cannot compare them to economic immigrants who come in on a temporary visa and fail to leave or have failed entrance exams.

Everyone entering a country on a visa is subject to inspection by the border control people of that country. Getting a visa in advance of travel is generally required, but not sufficient, for entry. That's not just the US, that's every country. Admissibility is done when traveling to a country.

When I travel overseas, I get a visa. But, the visa does not guarantee me entry. I have to identify myself, present my passport, and answer questions posed to me by immigration folks for the country I'm entering. I've been questioned before. They verify the documents. They punch in information into the computer, etc. If something is fishy, I can be denied entry, visa or no visa. That's not unique to the US, and people need to stop pretending that it is. I've traveled to many countries -- certainly, to western Europe it's easier because we have reciprocal visa waiver policies with many countries, but I've been to other countries which require visas and its' the same routine to get in there.

A green card, by the way, is a kind of visa. It's a permanent resident alien card, and does not guaranty reentry. A green card, for example, can be lost if a person lives outside of the US continously for too long. The presumption of residence goes away, and they risk losing it or being denied reentry until a new application is filed. The border person can make that call. The same goes for criminals -- if you try to reenter, but you've got some major criminal offense popping up on your record, then you can be barred.

The handful of people "turned away" this past weekend could have been turned away for any number of reasons, and we don't know what they are. The suggestion that it must be an improper reason is speculation, and it's just more Trump bashing. Trump is President, therefore, the border people are turning away starving children at the airport. Everyone sees through this nonsense.

[Brian Peacock]

The Trump administration lied again. No block on 7 countries under Obama

The Pinocchio Test
So what’s the difference with Trump’s action?

First, Obama responded to an actual threat — the discovery that two Iraqi refugees had been implicated in bomb-making in Iraq that had targeted U.S. troops. (Iraq, after all, had been a war zone.) Under congressional pressure, officials decided to reexamine all previous refugees and also impose new screening procedures, which led to a slowdown in processing new applications. Trump, by contrast, issued his executive order without any known triggering threat. (His staff has pointed to attacks unrelated to the countries named in his order.)

Second, Obama did not announce there was a ban on visa applications. In fact, as seen in Napolitano’s answer to Collins, administration officials danced around that question. There was certainly a lot of news reporting that visa applications had been slowed to a trickle. But the Obama administration never said it was their policy to halt all applications. Even so, the delays did not go unnoticed, so there was a lot of critical news reporting at the time about the angst of Iraqis waiting for approval.

Third, Obama’s policy did not prevent all citizens of that country, including green-card holders, from traveling to the United States. Trump’s policy is much more sweeping, though officials have appeared to pull back from barring permanent U.S. residents.

We have sought comment from the White House and also from Obama administration officials and so may update this if more information becomes available. But so far this is worthy of at least Two Pinocchios.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... ab64456115

The media is lying again. The Trump admin did not say there was a "block" under the Obama Administration. It said these 7 countries were designated by the Obama Administration as countries to be concerned about. And, they did.

The relevant page on the US State Department website can be found here :
https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/11/249613.htm

Look - open up the executive order and see how many countries are listed there. The only one expressly named is Syria. Where do you think they got the list of 7? How does the media know which countries are subject to the executive order when only Syria is mentioned?

Riddle me that.

Which of the executive orders are you referring to here?

[Forty Two]

It\s not nothing. Those people had obtained savings to fly over and were returned. Now they have no money to make another flight to the US.

LOL - that's an interesting assumption, which you have no way of knowing, and which nobody has reported. It may well be that these are well-to-do folks. One of the things that gets people higher scrutiny is when they make repeat trips back and forth to high-risk areas. I don't know, and neither do you.

The protests are jumped up nonsense, and the majority of people know it. The hyperbolic language, comparisons to Hitler and the holocaust, and the bouncing around hollering about how "horrifying" everything is, well, that's not going to convince the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans see a policy that says we're going to be careful about people coming in from Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Syria, and ISIS controlled territory, etc. and they're going to say "that sounds a bit reasonable - check them out - and if they're cool, let them in, and if they're questionable, keep them out."

You want to push more people away from the leftist cause? Keep sending screaming blue-hairs to clog up the airport and irritate/delay travelers. It's like the laughable Leftist Women's March on Washington. Everyone knows the big plan was to have a major women's event when Hillary Clinton won -- it was going to be a coronation, with worldwide celebration. When Trump won, they changed it to a protest against ...... the other guy that got elected, and everyone got to listen to how Madonna wants to blow up the white house and how the left doesn't acknowledge Trump as the legitimate President ...and everyone got to see the same people declaring that it was the worst thing in the world not to respect the outcome of an election, well....not respect the outcome of an election.

The average person things this shit is purposefully overblown, because it quite simply is purposefully overblown. It's Chicken Little. It's Crying Wolf. Nobody is buying it anymore.

Very funny. Just shut up here. You did not arrive in the US with two suit cases in hand. I did, in 1966, at age 12.

Fuck off. Both my parents are immigrants and my older sibling is an immigrant and my wife is an immigrant.

[Brian Peacock]

Ok guys, playing "who's the biggest immigrant" is not needed here. Deep breaths ... and relax.

[Forty Two]

Look - open up the executive order and see how many countries are listed there. The only one expressly named is Syria. Where do you think they got the list of 7? How does the media know which countries are subject to the executive order when only Syria is mentioned?

Riddle me that.

Which of the executive orders are you referring to here?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/ ... -refugees/

Note, the article refers to all 7 countries....but the text of the immigration executive order mentions only Syria.

[Tero]

It\s not nothing. Those people had obtained savings to fly over and were returned. Now they have no money to make another flight to the US.

LOL - that's an interesting assumption, which you have no way of knowing, and which nobody has reported. It may well be that these are well-to-do folks. One of the things that gets people higher scrutiny is when they make repeat trips back and forth to high-risk areas. I don't know, and neither do you.

The protests are jumped up nonsense, and the majority of people know it. The hyperbolic language, comparisons to Hitler and the holocaust, and the bouncing around hollering about how "horrifying" everything is, well, that's not going to convince the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans see a policy that says we're going to be careful about people coming in from Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Syria, and ISIS controlled territory, etc. and they're going to say "that sounds a bit reasonable - check them out - and if they're cool, let them in, and if they're questionable, keep them out."

You want to push more people away from the leftist cause? Keep sending screaming blue-hairs to clog up the airport and irritate/delay travelers. It's like the laughable Leftist Women's March on Washington. Everyone knows the big plan was to have a major women's event when Hillary Clinton won -- it was going to be a coronation, with worldwide celebration. When Trump won, they changed it to a protest against ...... the other guy that got elected, and everyone got to listen to how Madonna wants to blow up the white house and how the left doesn't acknowledge Trump as the legitimate President ...and everyone got to see the same people declaring that it was the worst thing in the world not to respect the outcome of an election, well....not respect the outcome of an election.

The average person things this shit is purposefully overblown, because it quite simply is purposefully overblown. It's Chicken Little. It's Crying Wolf. Nobody is buying it anymore.

Very funny. Just shut up here. You did not arrive in the US with two suit cases in hand. I did, in 1966, at age 12.

Fuck off. Both my parents are immigrants and my older sibling is an immigrant and my wife is an immigrant.

Makes you an even bigger hypocrite. You have not had anything convincing to add for weeks so I will put you on ignore.

No need to report your insults.

[Forty Two]

Fuck off. Both my parents are immigrants and my older sibling is an immigrant and my wife is an immigrant.

Makes you an even bigger hypocrite. You have not had anything convincing to add for weeks so I will put you on ignore.

No need to report your insults.

Go ahead and report them. I haven't insulted you. You call me a hypocrite, and then talk about me insulting you?

You want to talk about "convincing?" Your posts are almost always unsubstantiated declarations, and tantamount to cliches and platitudes.

It doesn't, by the way, make me a hypocrite to not be "horrified" (or some words to that effect) by a temporary travel restriction from 7 highly risky countries, pending implementation of a system to better vet or review entries. Being an immigrant, or the child/spouse of immigrants, does not require one to be against immigration rules. I am not in favor of blanket immigration bans and there are plenty of immigration rules I would oppose as unwise. However, a three month restriction on entry from 7 high risk countries, pending creation of a sensible vetting process, does not, to me, reach Nazi proportions and does not warrant histrionic wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Generally, the legion of immigrants that I know personally are troubled by illegal immigration, and by the risks associated with the influx of people from high-risk locales. When a person has gone through the lawful immigration process - perhaps come here on a nonimmigrant visa, adjusted status to permanent residence, and ultimately applied for naturalization as a US citizen, one gets fairly emotional about it. I've been to many naturalization ceremonies -- six total -- and they never cease to move me, because the people there are so proud and overjoyed to have made it. They invite their family members and friends to come and witness the ceremony. They cry when their country is announced. They hug. They smile. They laugh. They express deep, sincere joy at the prospect of having become a US citizen. it's a pride you don't even see in natural born Americans much (certainly not among Leftists, that's for sure). And, those people tend to be nonplussed at people who cut the system and stay in the US illegally or otherwise game the system.

[Tero]

No green-card holders were turned away from entering the U.S. as of Saturday, the official said, though several spent hours in detention before being allowed in.

After an appeal from civil liberties lawyers, Judge Donnelly issued an emergency order Saturday barring the U.S. from summarily deporting people who arrived with valid visas or an approved refugee application, saying it would likely violate their legal rights.

Before Trump signed the order, more than 67,000 refugees had been approved by the federal government to enter the U.S., said Jen Smyers, refugee policy director for Church World Service. More than 6,400 had already been booked on flights, including 15 families that had been expected over the next few weeks in the Chicago area from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Iran, Syria and Uganda.

Families split, a father unable to reach his son's wedding and officials warning of a "gift to extremists" - Trump's visa ban on seven Muslim countries has triggered shock and confusion.

"There is mass hysteria among the Iranian-American community - that's no exaggeration," said Saam Borhani, a lawyer in Los Angeles, adding that said clients were bombarding him with questions.

Borhani, himself an Iranian-American, said he had heard from married couples stuck in separate countries and a father blocked from attending his son's wedding in California.

Among thousands facing difficulties, an Iraqi family was barred in Cairo from taking their connecting flight to New York on Saturday.

"I had sold my house, my car, my furniture. I resigned from work and so did my wife. I took my children out of school," Fuad Sharef, 51, told AFP.

"Donald Trump destroyed my life. My family's life. I used to think America was a state of institutions but it's as though it's a dictatorship."

An Iranian woman blocked from boarding at Tehran airport on Sunday said she had waited 14 years for her green card.

"Even during the hostage crisis at the US embassy (in 1980), the US government didn't issue such an order. They say the US is the cradle of liberty. I don't see freedom in that country," she said, asking not to be named.

http://www.chinchillanews.com.au/news/d ... s/3137237/

[cronus]

Let's wait and see with Trump. We should know by the end of the year what we have here. Is he a evil tyrant, a dangerous buffoon or something less worrisome like a combination? Give him till the end of the year. That's what I'm doing.

[Scot Dutchy]

Let's wait and see with Trump. We should know by the end of the year what we have here. Is he a evil tyrant, a dangerous buffoon or something less worrisome like a combination? Give him till the end of the year. That's what I'm doing.

Sorry that is far too long. Give him 100 days (and that is pushing it). Then use the 25th amendment and lock him in a luny bin which is where he should be already.

[DRSB]

BREAKING: Leaked Memo Reveals Donald Trump’s Real Plan. It’s Horrifying.

Donald Trump is certainly no friend of the environment, and his recent plans to overturn the Endangered Species Act is evidence of that. But the bad news is that Trump’s war against Mother Nature is just getting started.

http://www.learnprogress.org/leaked-mem ... YTMxIn0%3D

Alright, I clicked through the hysteria, but I must say I did not see a link to a "leaked memo." Did you see that in there? Can you do me a solid, and post the link to the "leaked memo?"

No need to look it up, just wait to see what Trump does in the coming weeks.

[Svartalf]

Let's wait and see with Trump. We should know by the end of the year what we have here. Is he a evil tyrant, a dangerous buffoon or something less worrisome like a combination? Give him till the end of the year. That's what I'm doing.

Sorry that is far too long. Give him 100 days (and that is pushing it). Then use the 25th amendment and lock him in a luny bin which is where he should be already.

problem is, wouldn't pence be even worse, he's a complete loon in his own right, but with the GOP in power, that will be a lot more difficult to get recognized.

[Forty Two]

Ah, Tero, your criticism of the immigration policies are so even-handed.

The Obama administration confirmed Monday that it began a new wave of arrests of Central American immigrant families over the weekend, moving forward with deportations of mothers and children despite an outcry from immigrant rights groups and potential political fallout for Democrats.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/o ... ids-217329

Few words are needed when Liliana Ramos talks by phone with her youngest daughter, age 11, back in Oregon.

"Mostly we cry," she says. "All the time we cry and say, 'I love you, I miss you.' "

After living for 21 years in the U.S., Ramos, 39, was deported to Mexico in September, separated from the two daughters and son she has raised as a single mother since her ex-husband left them seven years ago

Like hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants, her hopes rose with the Obama administration. In July 2010, President Obama said mass deportation of all illegal immigrants would be "intolerable" to most Americans because so many have established deep family roots, often with children who are citizens. He said they should be given a route to legal status: "Our laws should respect families following the rules instead of splitting them apart."

In June 2011, the administration announced a policy of focusing immigration enforcement on violent criminals and threats to national security rather than families with children, deep ties to their communities and no criminal records.

Six months after Obama's 2010 speech, federal agents showed up at the Bend, Ore., resort where Ramos worked as a housekeeper, handcuffed her and took her to immigration jail. She realized nothing had changed for her.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nat ... 51646680/1

And, http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... t-families

These examples were bad...but, they pale in comparison to the barbarity of a 90 day hiatus, where folks from high risk countries have to wait a bit before they can enter, so that a reasonable vetting system can be implemented which would be able to handle the issues from countries like Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Sudan....etc.

Whither hypocrisy, eh Tero?

[Forty Two]

BREAKING: Leaked Memo Reveals Donald Trump’s Real Plan. It’s Horrifying.

Donald Trump is certainly no friend of the environment, and his recent plans to overturn the Endangered Species Act is evidence of that. But the bad news is that Trump’s war against Mother Nature is just getting started.

http://www.learnprogress.org/leaked-mem ... YTMxIn0%3D

Alright, I clicked through the hysteria, but I must say I did not see a link to a "leaked memo." Did you see that in there? Can you do me a solid, and post the link to the "leaked memo?"

No need to look it up, just wait to see what Trump does in the coming weeks.

I was interested in the "leaked memo" referred to in the article. Doesn't seem like there really was one.

[Scot Dutchy]

Let's wait and see with Trump. We should know by the end of the year what we have here. Is he a evil tyrant, a dangerous buffoon or something less worrisome like a combination? Give him till the end of the year. That's what I'm doing.

Sorry that is far too long. Give him 100 days (and that is pushing it). Then use the 25th amendment and lock him in a luny bin which is where he should be already.

problem is, wouldn't pence be even worse, he's a complete loon in his own right, but with the GOP in power, that will be a lot more difficult to get recognized.

With Pence you know what you get and there is plenty of opposition to handle him. Take away the religious rubbish and he is a very plain rebub. TwatTrump is a loose cannon firing at anything.