The suzerain Trump

[Animavore]

[Animavore]

[Forty Two]

Go Iraq! They did what I said they would.
http://time.com/4652876/donald-trump-mu ... q-revenge/

Except, Trump's executive order wasn't a ban. It's just heightened screening from 7 countries who had been previously designated as high risk. As I understand it, the only ban is a temporary one regarding refugees, for 120 days or thereabouts until a proper vetting process is enacted.

[Svartalf]

point to you ani, on all three counts

[Brian Peacock]

Go Iraq! They did what I said they would.
http://time.com/4652876/donald-trump-mu ... q-revenge/

Except, Trump's executive order wasn't a ban. It's just heightened screening from 7 countries who had been previously designated as high risk. As I understand it, the only ban is a temporary one regarding refugees, for 120 days or thereabouts until a proper vetting process is enacted.

How was the previous vetting system 'improper' or failing?

[Tero]

People have been banned and sent back 42.

In a few weeks, when Trump has the army and navy, he will be declared ruler of all and can ignore congress.

[Forty Two]

Go Iraq! They did what I said they would.
http://time.com/4652876/donald-trump-mu ... q-revenge/

Except, Trump's executive order wasn't a ban. It's just heightened screening from 7 countries who had been previously designated as high risk. As I understand it, the only ban is a temporary one regarding refugees, for 120 days or thereabouts until a proper vetting process is enacted.

How was the previous vetting system 'improper' or failing?

I'll correct myself, and add that there is a 90 day restriction on travel from the 7 listed countries - Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, etc.

One of the main issues was that the investigation of visa applications was not particularly thorough. So, the proposal is to set up screening procedures which can identify and check the backgrounds of applicants so that folks with ties to terrorism can be screened out. He has also said that immigrants should be willing to conform to liberal western values, like religious tolerance and tolerance of LGBTQ people. Where immigrants harbored illiberal views, he would bar immigration. This is not without precedence, as in the past ties to extremist fascist ideologies and totalitarian communism have been screened out.

[Animavore]

point to you ani, on all three counts

Three counts of what?

[Svartalf]

three posts of yours that ht the sweet spot

[Brian Peacock]

OKAY. So the most rigorous visa application system of any western nation wasn't rigorous enough and the lack of a suitable ideological test, to establush the political correctness (in it's original sense) of potential immigrants, was a failing. So...

How many terrorist attacks has the US suffered from documented immigrants from one of the forbidden countries?

The 9/11 terrorist were from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon - why are people from these Muslim majority states not automatically banned from entering the US.

What quantity or level of secueoty threat do child refugees from Syria present to the American people?

[Forty Two]

People have been banned and sent back 42.

Well, yes, there is a 90 day restriction from 7 listed countries, and they have to have heightened scrutiny on arrival. We're talking about entry from Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, ISIS controlled territories, Iran, Yemen and Libya. The

What's interesting, and what you may not have noticed, is that the executive order signed by Trump doesn't mention those 7 countries (except Syria). The executive order does not mention any other country besides Syria and does not mention the word "Muslim."

So, how do we get those 7 countries?

The Department of Homeland Security targeted these seven countries over the last years as countries of concern. In February 2016 “The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern, limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries.” It noted “the three additional countries designated today join Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals.” It was the US policy under Obama to restrict and target people “who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).” This was text of the US Customs and Border Protection in 2015 relating to “the Visa Waiver Program and Terrorist Travel Protection Act of 2015“. The link even includes the seven nation list in it: “Iraq, Syria, Iran, SUdan, Somalia or Yemen.” And the media knew this back in May 2016 when some civil rights groups complained about it. “These restrictions have provoked an outcry from the Iranian-American community, as well as Arab-American and civil-liberties groups, who say the restrictions on dual nationals and certain travelers are discriminatory and could be imposed against American dual nationals.”

It was signed into law on December 18, 2015, as part of the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016.

What? So there was a Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 two years before Trump? There was a kind of “Muslim ban” before the Muslim ban? But almost no one critiqued it in 2015 because it was Obama’s administration overseeing it.

So for more than a year it has been US policy to discriminate against, target and even begin to ban people from the seven countries that Trump is accused of banning immigrants and visitors from. CNN even hinted at this by noting “those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as ‘countries of concern.'” But why didn’t CNN note that the seven countries were not named and that in fact they are only on the list because of Obama’s policy?

Because mainstream media has been purposely lying, either due to ignorance or because of unwillingness to read the document and ask questions and because they are too ready to accept “facts” without investigating. They want to blame Trump for a “Muslim ban” because they were ready with that script since last year. And indeed Trump has enacted a harsh executive order cracking down on visitors from these countries (particularly Syrians), but his crackdown only includes those seven countries because of Obama’s policy. Trump’s decision to go beyond the policy and increase the Obama policy harms refugees, but it only increases an existing discriminatory policy, it doesn’t invent it. Reading media reports you would never know that. Most disingenuous, truly bordering on fake news, are the reports that claimed the seven countries were connected to Trump business interests, as if Obama’s DHS picked them because of Trump?

So why didn’t anyone of the thousands of reporters covering this read the same document and ask the same question and do the same investigation of where the seven “countries of concern” came from? A simply Google search would have revealed the history. A bit of searching around US code would have explained it.

The public should be suspicious of Trump’s policies and the media should speak truth to power and demand answers from the administration. But the media should also be truthful with the public and instead of claiming Trump singled out seven countries, it should note that the US Congress and Obama’s Department of Homeland Security had singled out these countries. It should have told us about theTerrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 rather than pretend this list was invented in 2017. Trump’s executive order said “countries of concern,” it didn’t make a list. That list was already made, last year and years before.

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/ob ... -tell-you/

[Tero]

Chaos over Trump immigration order may be just what he wanted:
Declare Trump emperor to take action quickly.

[Animavore]

So basically Trump has put a Nazi in charge of the nation's security.

http://commondreams.org/news/2017/01/29 ... telligence

So when are you going to storm the White House and overthrow these scumbags?

[Feck]

"So, the proposal is to set up screening procedures which can identify and check the backgrounds of applicants so that folks with ties to terrorism can be screened out. He has also said that immigrants should be willing to conform to liberal western values, like religious tolerance and tolerance of LGBTQ people. Where immigrants harbored illiberal views, he would bar immigration. "



Sounds good another Trump sound bite of course there is no practical way of doing ANY of this! What the fuck does he think? refugees all have verifiable paperwork or that customs can phone the public records office in Aleppo ? does he think Muslims are not allowed to lie (it's allowed, both Taqiyya and Kitman) what the fuck does he think the test is going to be ???? all immigrants much eat a bacon sandwich drink a pint of beer and dance to Karma Chameleon ?????
Many of the people who voted for him are religious bigoted homophobic racists will he apply the same test to them as Muslims and deport them ?

[Forty Two]

OKAY. So the most rigorous visa application system of any western nation wasn't rigorous enough and the lack of a suitable ideological test, to establush the political correctness (in it's original sense) of potential immigrants, was a failing. So...

Well, i would like some evidence that the US had the most rigorous application system of any western nation. I'm fairly well familiar with immigration laws, and generally I am surprised by Europeans when they criticize the US about this, because European countries tend to have more restrictive immigration systems (except for EU countries, of course). On what basis do you say that the visa application system used by the US for immigrants or nonimmigrants from the listed 7 countries was more rigorous than that used by any other western nation?

How many terrorist attacks has the US suffered from documented immigrants from one of the forbidden countries?

Not sure of the answer to that question. However, when the Obama administration noted these 7 countries as high risk countries, to be subjected to greater scrutiny, were you worried about it then? Note, the Trump executive order does not mention these 7 countries, but rather refers to them by reference to countries which had previously been categorized in 2015 by the Department of Homeland Security.... That's why Trump is claiming the right to do this -- the authority was already delegated by act of Congress, and partially implemented by the DHS under Obama.

The 9/11 terrorist were from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon - why are people from these Muslim majority states not automatically banned from entering the US.

9/11 was 15 1/2 years ago, and the terrorist problem is now, and was then, bigger than the events of 9/11/01. Libya, Yemen, Sudan, Syria, etc. are problems in their own right. ISIS wasn't around at 9/11/01, and the Syrian war involving ISIS was not around. The Libyan government had not yet been overthrown by the Obama Administration "leading from behind" as the UK and France took the lead to take down Qaddafi and set forth the civil war that ensued. The Arab Spring had not occurred ,where terrorist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood gained significant power, etc.

The Obama administration, not the incompetent and buffoonish Trump administration, recognized the issues with these 7 countries, and it can't possibly be said that the Obama administration was anything other than fairminded and competent. See also Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

What quantity or level of secueoty threat do child refugees from Syria present to the American people?

Well, refugees are being treated separately from general immigration. Not all immigrants and nonimmigrant travelers are refugees, and in fact most aren't.

The issue is not the actual refugees who are in fact suffering a well founded fear of persecution or violence. The issue with refugees is that a bulk acceptance of thousands or 10s of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of refugees can be used by ne'er-do-wells to conceal themselves and gain entry into a country. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/739 ... e-refugees and http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... s-into-re/