Will you accept the election results?

[Forty Two]

And you trust a census in America?

Oi.

The arrogance. It burns.

[JimC]

As I understand it, congressional district boundaries are under the control of your state politicians, which surely is a recipe for political interference; licensed gerrymandering...

In Oz, boundaries of electoral districts are controlled by an independent Electoral Commission, charged with maintaining as much vote equality as is practicably possible, altering boundaries and even creating new districts as the demographics change.

[L'Emmerdeur]

You're correct. The census determines the number of congressional districts allotted to each state, but in turn each state draws up the actual districts. That's where the gerrymandering takes place.

[Forty Two]

As I understand it, congressional district boundaries are under the control of your state politicians, which surely is a recipe for political interference; licensed gerrymandering...

Someone has to draw the districts. The US has 50 states, and the "state politicians" are representatives elected by the people in that state, and so they draw boundaries of districts in that state for which representatives of that state will be chosen to represent the people of that state in Washington.

Who should set the boundaries, if not the elected representatives of the people in that state? The US Congress? They would draw better lines?

In Oz, boundaries of electoral districts are controlled by an independent Electoral Commission, charged with maintaining as much vote equality as is practicably possible, altering boundaries and even creating new districts as the demographics change.

That sounds like a good idea in principle, and certainly one the US may wish to consider. The Devil is in the details, of course, and what is meant by "vote equality."

In the US, the States decide how to do it - http://redistricting.lls.edu/who.php Some states do have an electoral commission do it.

California had this experience - https://www.propublica.org/article/how- ... commission

[pErvinalia]

As I understand it, congressional district boundaries are under the control of your state politicians, which surely is a recipe for political interference; licensed gerrymandering...

Someone has to draw the districts. The US has 50 states, and the "state politicians" are representatives elected by the people in that state, and so they draw boundaries of districts in that state for which representatives of that state will be chosen to represent the people of that state in Washington.

Who should set the boundaries, if not the elected representatives of the people in that state? The US Congress? They would draw better lines?

In Australia an independent electoral commission do it.

The state politicians aren't representative of "the people in that state". I don't know what your voter turnout average is, but let's just guess and say it's 30%. Which means that the state politicians who determine the boundaries are doing it representing about 15% of voters in their state. Which is probably less than 10% of the population of the state.

[Forty Two]

That's how representative democracy works. Not everyone chooses to vote. Some people who cast votes vote for Deez Nuts and other non-candidates. It's the way of the world of voting.

[Svartalf]

There are too many voters for elected officials to actually "represent"' anything but themselves, and possibly a party or privileged private interests that helped them get elected or can influence their reelection.

[pErvinalia]

That's how representative democracy works. Not everyone chooses to vote. Some people who cast votes vote for Deez Nuts and other non-candidates. It's the way of the world of voting.

Yes, but you can't say that one side of politics redistributing boundaries to favour it is doing what the state really wants just because they won the election.

[Forty Two]

That's just an indictment of democracy as not really being the will of "the people" because not all the people vote. We have representative democracy, meaning people are elected by those eligible to vote who actually vote. Duh. That's how the will of the people is determined.

The best we can say about those who haven't voted is that we don't know who they would have voted for.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not talking about the philosophy of democracy. I'm talking about your claim that one side of politics realigning boundaries to suit them is all fair because they won the election and therefore represent the people of the state. And if you want to talk about the philosophy of democracy, I'm pretty sure you'll find that gerrymandering isn't a part of it.

[Forty Two]

I'm not talking about the philosophy of democracy. I'm talking about your claim that one side of politics realigning boundaries to suit them is all fair because they won the election and therefore represent the people of the state. And if you want to talk about the philosophy of democracy, I'm pretty sure you'll find that gerrymandering isn't a part of it.

Oh, I'm sure that the parties seek to benefit themselves through gerrymandering. The notion that only one side does it, however, is absurd.

SOMEONE has to draw the boundaries. If an electoral commission can be made free from political influence, that would be the best way to do it -- a mandate to set fair and reasonable boundaries, without politics or prejudice. That's a big "if" though.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not talking about the philosophy of democracy. I'm talking about your claim that one side of politics realigning boundaries to suit them is all fair because they won the election and therefore represent the people of the state. And if you want to talk about the philosophy of democracy, I'm pretty sure you'll find that gerrymandering isn't a part of it.

Oh, I'm sure that the parties seek to benefit themselves through gerrymandering. The notion that only one side does it, however, is absurd.

Why are you telling me this? I never said that only one side does it. I'm commenting on your poor logic.

[Forty Two]

You posts are idiotic, pErvin.

[pErvinalia]

Stunning rebuttal. I concede all points.

[Forty Two]

Good - I can't listen to more of your evasive and disingenuous bullshit anymore.