Trump and coal mines

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Seth
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Seth » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:40 pm

Animavore wrote:
Tero wrote:Where do I sign up to buy stock in a wind farm?
You should. Renewable are the future and demand is on the increase,
Not really. Renewable sources like solar and wind cannot succeed in the marketplace without government subsidies, and "demand" only increases because of government mandates that private energy providers must by law source certain amounts of their generating capacity from renewable sources. When those mandates vanish the wind-farm industry will drop dead quicker than a heart-attack victim because it was NEVER economically viable and only exists because of government mandates and subsidies.
despite Trump and his dimwitted, psychopathic cronies. I'm afraid, as much as arseholes in the Heartless Institute are salivating right now, that the ball is rolling, the green revolution is happening, China is leading the way, while America potentially trails behind, taking it's World leader status with it.
China is leading the way? The fuck it is. They are building more coal-fired power plants than all the other nations on earth combined. The US has done more to reduce its CO2 emissions in the last 30 years than any other country, so we're done until everybody else catches up.
That is, unless, Trump does a U-turn on scrapping Obama's clean energy plan.
He damned well better not, since it was one of his platform planks to deconstruct the EPA and discard Obama's "necessarily skyrocketing" energy plans.
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Listen to the unsupported blithering above, or a reputable source like Bloomberg? Hmm. :dunno:

"Economics to Keep Wind and Solar Energy Thriving With Trump"
On the plains of West Texas, new wind farms can be built for just $22 a megawatt-hour. In the Arizona and Nevada deserts, solar projects are less than $40 a megawatt-hour. Compare those figures with the U.S. average lifetime cost of $52 for natural gas plants and about $65 for coal.

Environmental rules and government subsidies are no longer the key drivers for clean power. Economics are.
That’s why Donald Trump will have limited influence on the U.S. utility industry’s push toward renewable energy, according to executives and investors. Companies including NextEra Energy Inc., Duke Energy Corp. and others that invest billions in power plants are already moving forward with long-term plans to generate electricity with cleaner and more economic alternatives.

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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Animavore » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:13 pm

I don't even want to know what the gombeen said above, but thanks for posting exactly what I was talking about.
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by DaveDodo007 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:38 am

Animavore wrote:My computer is powered by electricity.
So those potato powered computers were just a myth.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:08 am

Seth wrote: Greenies, you see, are Luddites who want us all to live in wattle-and-daub huts and grub in the ground for roots with sharpened sticks. That's why I laugh at them, make fun of them and ignore them.
And that's why everyone laughs at and makes fun of you.
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:13 am

Seth wrote:
Woodbutcher wrote:Sure, Seth.http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fr ... _pollution
Or is this an unreliable source because it reports things that are not extant in your world. Also, there was that little thing in Chernobyl and Fukushima, among other mishaps...http://www.processindustryforum.com/hot ... rdisasters
Never been a verified case of fracking fluids in drinking water. Period. It's all hyperbolic speculation by anti-fracking greenies whose objective is to prevent the extraction of fossil fuels. They don't give a shit about human health.
We've explained this all to you before. No baselines studies were done before fracking and most fracking mixtures are proprietry secrets. All due to lobbying by the industry. Where this isn't the case, it's because greenies and other sane people have managed to convince governments to adopt rational policies.
Besides, wind farms are ugly and noisy and they kill birds by the tens of thousands.
:funny: What are you a greeny now? Since when do you give one shit about any organism on the planet other than you? Not least fictional blind birds?
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:14 am

Animavore wrote:
Tero wrote:So do cats. By the millions. 72% of yard bird nestlings are eaten by cats.

Is someone seriously bringing up the bird argument?

Climate change is far worse for birds.
http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/ ... -change-on

Not to mention many other species as we wander into an extinction event.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six ... al_History

Deniers need to fuck off pretending they suddenly care about nature when it comes to wind turbines because clearly they don't give a first fuck about what's going on out there. Not a first fuck.
Yep, :this:
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:16 am

Seth wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Tero wrote:So do cats. By the millions. 72% of yard bird nestlings are eaten by cats.

Is someone seriously bringing up the bird argument?

Climate change is far worse for birds.
Birds, like all living creatures, adapt to climate change because the climate has been changing for some 4 or 5 billion years so far and it will continue to do so until the sun engulfs the planet. Get over it.
We've explained this all to you before. Are you terminally dim? It's the RATE OF CHANGE that is the problem. :fp:
I think all wind-farm proponents should be forcibly housed directly under wind turbines. That would be a good use for the land between individual towers. Nice thin walls and roofs to maximize the "whoosh, whoosh, whoosh" of the blades and the infrasonics and windows looking only at the turbine field, because wind farm proponents don't give a fuck how horrible wind farms look or sound so they should be forced to live under them as punishment for being fuckwits.
Wind farm opponents need to adapt. "Get over it".
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:18 am

Seth wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Tero wrote:Where do I sign up to buy stock in a wind farm?
You should. Renewable are the future and demand is on the increase,
Not really.
:funny: You really inhabit an alternative universe.
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:20 am

Animavore wrote:I don't even want to know what the gombeen said above, but thanks for posting exactly what I was talking about.
He really is indoctrinated by fox news to a level that I can barely believe. Imagine existing in a state where you have zero skills to rationally investigate the issues past what Fox News claims? I'd kill myself before allowing myself to win up in such an intellectually degraded state as that.
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by laklak » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:00 am

If the costs of renewable energy actually is below that for fossil plants then there's no issue. We can drop the subsidies (to ALL energy producers) and the market will take care of it. Funny - capitalism will actually solve the issue, whooda thunk it?
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Tero » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:59 am

Most technology that capitalism "made millions from" started with inventions at universities that brought in just a little profit to the university in their first version. Industry just patents an improved version. Nobel prizes give some rewards for the early work.

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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by JimC » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:35 am

Send Trump down a coal mine.

I'd rather lose him than a cute little canary...
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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Seth » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:22 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:Listen to the unsupported blithering above, or a reputable source like Bloomberg? Hmm. :dunno:

"Economics to Keep Wind and Solar Energy Thriving With Trump"
On the plains of West Texas, new wind farms can be built for just $22 a megawatt-hour. In the Arizona and Nevada deserts, solar projects are less than $40 a megawatt-hour. Compare those figures with the U.S. average lifetime cost of $52 for natural gas plants and about $65 for coal.
Notice the subtle deception here. Wind farms can be built for $22/MWh. But that's not the "average lifetime cost", that's the cost of building them. The cost of maintaining hundreds, or thousands, or tens of thousands of individual turbines/generators is much, much higher than maintaining single installations. The infrastructure itself (ie: the blades and internal workings like bearings and windings) have finite lives and whereas a typical coal/gas plant might have four to six generators one wind farm alone has HUNDREDS of them, all of which must be maintained. It's perfectly ordinary to drive past mile after mile of wind farm in the US (as I just did on my trip) and see 30 to 90 percent of the windmills standing still with blades feathered because the companies can't afford to keep them maintained. They can't even find a sufficient number of trained technicians willing to climb 300 foot tall towers to work on them. At Tehachapi Pass there are hundreds of windmills polluting the environment and of the several hundred I could see only three were turning and it wasn't because of a lack of wind. I saw that repeated time and time again in the more than 3000 miles I've driven this November alone.

Even NREL, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden Colorado, which has something like ten windmills of varying design they used for research can't keep them running. They have enough megawattage in their taxpayer-funded windmills to run all of NREL and a bunch of homes to boot but those windmills are almost NEVER turning, and when they are, only one of them turns at a time. I've NEVER seen them all turning.
Environmental rules and government subsidies are no longer the key drivers for clean power. Economics are.
No, physics is. Wind farms only work when the wind blows, assuming they work at all. Wind farms will NEVER replace coal, gas or nuclear power because they are unreliable.

Wind farms are built on government subsidies, driven by environmental rules and nothing else, and they are quickly abandoned once the developer has made his profit and the facilities get turned over to someone else who can't afford to maintain them.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

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© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Trump and coal mines

Post by Seth » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:36 am

pErvin wrote:
Seth wrote:
Woodbutcher wrote:Sure, Seth.http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fr ... _pollution
Or is this an unreliable source because it reports things that are not extant in your world. Also, there was that little thing in Chernobyl and Fukushima, among other mishaps...http://www.processindustryforum.com/hot ... rdisasters
Never been a verified case of fracking fluids in drinking water. Period. It's all hyperbolic speculation by anti-fracking greenies whose objective is to prevent the extraction of fossil fuels. They don't give a shit about human health.
We've explained this all to you before. No baselines studies were done before fracking and most fracking mixtures are proprietry secrets. All due to lobbying by the industry.
As I said, there are exactly zero verified incidents of fracking contaminating drinking water anywhere in the US. Your claims are just smoke and mirrors and are meaningless tripe. What you're saying amount so "I know fracking pollutes drinking water because I think it must do so but I can't prove it's happening because nobody studied nonexistent pollution of water tables. This is just so much bullshit because drinking water gets tested all the time, and has for a long, long time, and any such contamination would have been noticed pretty damned quickly.

You cannot produce one single instance of anything associated with fracking (most of the constituents being food-grade organic products, water and sand) being found in drinking water. Neither could the EPA.

Where this isn't the case, it's because greenies and other sane people have managed to convince governments to adopt rational policies.
No, Luddites have frightened gullible legislators who are pandering to a frightened public scared of nonexistent pollution.
Besides, wind farms are ugly and noisy and they kill birds by the tens of thousands.
:funny: What are you a greeny now? Since when do you give one shit about any organism on the planet other than you? Not least fictional blind birds?
I give lots of shits, I just don't mindlessly accept whatever some ideological zealot says as the Word of God. I require things like actual scientific proof of such claims and none has been forthcoming, and that propaganda which has been produced to prop up greenie zealotry has been shown to be falsified and flatly fabricated.

It's been that way since the 1970s, which is when I figured out that the enviroweenies were all liars and charlatans out to make money for themselves. You see, if even ONE of them had been correct in their predictions in the 60s we would all be dead right now.

We aren't, so fuck them and their lies.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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