A New Monetary System?

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A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:55 pm

Every couple of years I get obsessed with the concepts of money, money supply and wealth. While reading/watching random stuff on the internet on the subject, I came across the following (see below). Fiat money has always seemed a little bit off, but I can never quite put my finger on it. And the gold standard has always seemed like a bit of a kooky idea. So I'm often wondering what would be a better thing to base a currency on. One of the random pages I happened upon suggested that energy could be used as a basis for currency. It makes some sense in that it ties in the economy with the environment, something the current approach to economies and finances don't do so much.

I've only just read this, so I haven't really thought about it too much, but an interesting feature struck me. On first read I thought this might be a bit of a regressive system, as richer people would be able to afford greater energy efficiency than poorer people, thereby entrenching their wealth. But when you consider that in this system energy use is wealth, the more energy efficient one becomes, the less their riches technically grow. So in fact it would appear to be a great system to encourage more energy efficiency, while reducing wealth inequality.

Anyway, here's the blurb from the site. Any thoughts?
Towards a Perfect Currency

Environmentalists measure in real physical units, not monetary units. Money was developed to facilitate the trade of disparate real goods across a broad range of distances where direct exchange of goods was impractical. But money has many shortcomings in representing the full real wealth creation process and assets especially over time. Environmentalists have waited patiently for the commercial economics side of the real wealth creation process to develop monetary measurements which will capture the stocks and flows of environmental processes and non-renewable resource assets.

Without such common measurements, no broad based and unified initiatives on our planets many environmental challenges can easily take place. There will continue to be strong resistance from the commercial economics sector to any environmental sector efforts to make radical policy changes based on factors which do not show up in their monetary based accounting system.

If we wait for commercial economists to develop a unit of measure which clearly represents all processes, we will wait in vain as it is not in the interests of the finance sector to change. It is up to the science community to provide a monetary basis which will adequately represent both human and natural processes.

Fortunately there is now an opportunity to combine the real wealth creation sectors demand for a representative currency with the need of the commercial economics sector to change the currency used as the basis for international trade.

As the international standard of commerce, the American dollar has had its day.

The proposal by Zhou Xiaochuan, governor of China’s central bank, in March 2009, to establish an international financial reserve currency based on a basket of national currencies is only the start of the process to replace the US dollar as the medium of trade and finance.

But a basket based currency, even if it is more stable, also adds more complexity. It is still based on printed money valuations and incorporates all of the other weaknesses inherent in currencies which are not hard asset based.

Even though the Chinese proposal was widely rejected, the need for a stable international trading currency is clear and is the subject of ongoing discussion. But why settle for another fabricated currency? The opportunity exists to advance to a real and stable standard.

Upon which bedrock can an upgraded currency be based to facilitate accurate valuations, stability, fluidity to represent any scale of asset or transaction and offer resistance to speculation? Gold is limited by scarcity and scalability. Although it can dampen the gyrations of national currencies, it doesn’t represent in and of itself, the real wealth creation process.

There is only one commodity which is universally produced and consumed with both the scale and resolution to represent the full scope of any human endeavour. We already measure it in tremendous detail and it is central to every economy and process.

Energy based currency would represent real wealth creation potential and would not be subject to the shifting valuation issues to which every national currency is prone. Energy represents the value of work already done as well as the potential of work which can be done.

Some 800 years ago, the Mongols avoided inflationary pressures on their currency by performing inventories of their assets and matching the money supply to it. The Mongol empire did not suffer from the boom and bust cycle generated by the currency inflation which has plagued other monetary economies. Energy based currency would eliminate this cycle by representing constant real product and illuminating actual input costs.

Energy underwrites all commercial and environmental activity. It is the most widely measured, consumed and produced commodity on the planet. In contrast to the gold producing club, every nation produces energy from a wide variety of sources.

Energy currency? Fine. But which units should be used? A barrel of oil in raw energy numbers, contains 5.9 million btus, 1729 kilowatt hours, 6.2 billion joules or 1.49 billion calories. Awkward, to say the least. Currently a US dollar (at $50/bbl of oil) translates to about 120,000 btus, 35kw hours, 120 million joules and 30 million calories. Kilowatt hours is the best known and the most widely used measurement.

The closest thing to being a round number while having roughly the same magnitude as the current US dollar would be 100,000 btus or 100 million joules. Will we settle on “beatees”, “julies” or “watties” as the base currency unit?

Scientists would help monetary experts decide. That would be a new partnership. The first of many paradigm shifts necessary in the integration of real world physical accounting and the representation of commercial economic activity.

A kilowatt hour (or BTU, joule, calorie) is the same in Canada as it is in Kazakstan. It represents the same potential now as it would have centuries ago or will centuries into the future. As a scientific unit of measure, there will be no speculation about what a kilowatt will be worth in 10 years.

“Speculating”, “hedging”, “converting”, “runs against” - these would be superfluous activities of the past. Energy currency is elemental, timeless and universal; three qualities which arbitrary currencies or other commodity based currencies do not possess.

In moving to energy based currency, we will have made a huge step forward in stabilizing and rationalizing the economic process at every level. And when the technology is ready in 30 or 300 years, we can step easily from energy based currency to energy actually being the currency.

If energy storage technology can be developed to the point at which several thousand kilowatt hours can (safely) be carried on something the size of a credit card, then we will have developed the perfect currency.

Commodities, services and goods will always fluctuate in relation to energy but those fluctuations would be no longer be speculatively driven on the monetary side - they would be real cost and real demand driven. And there would never be a stampede away from energy. To what? Time?

Our current national policy focus on monetary flows is one of the prime reasons for the disconnect between policy makers and environmentalists. The GDP/monetary metric simply does not represent the physical processes or the assets of the real world which environmentalists see as essential, uncounted and rapidly degrading.

Energy currency very readily yields energy accounting which can provide a more comprehensive description of real output and resource consumption. Compared to monetary analysis, it is a 3D catscan for programs associated with alternative energy and carbon emissions. These issues need energy accounting to avoid negative sum game red-herrings like corn ethanol at northern latitudes which can survive only in the fog of our current monetary system.

In contrast to adopting energy currency, the process of dumping the US dollar in favour of a spectrum of other national currencies is a political minefield loaded with huge implications for the many players.

No matter who champions it, no one nation will own energy based money. It will be the first truly international, non-political currency base. No nation will be able to manipulate it to avoid the consequences of its own economic mis-steps or to beggar its neighbours.

The recent Chinese efforts to promote the creation of a new standard for international financial reserves have not produced results although the reasons for the proposal remain obvious and valid. A move to energy based currency offers a graceful and non-political avenue of monetary reform as a logical step forward not an abandonment of a failure.

Despite the rejection of Mr. Zhou’s initiative, the ball is still in his court and will remain there until a successor to the US dollar is found.

In the face of rapidly deteriorating environmental conditions as well as the necessity of retooling international finance, change must come to our monetary system. Conversion to an energy standard will take full advantage of this opportunity.

Energy Currency has all of the positive attributes of arbitrary money without many of the large problems. It opens the possibility of addressing environmental problems in a comprehensive fashion - something that baseless currencies cannot do.
http://www.theperfectcurrency.org/main- ... y-currency
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by laklak » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:44 pm

Just give all the stuff to me and I'll parcel it out to everybody in a completely fair and transparent manner.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:51 pm

The Calorie as the new global currency eh? I bet you 200 Cals this never happens.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by JimC » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:07 pm

My energy levels are too low to fully take this in...
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:39 am

A very short video which I think explains some of the problems with creating money out of debt:

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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by rainbow » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:21 am

Brian Peacock wrote:The Calorie as the new global currency eh? I bet you 200 Cals this never happens.
Mainly because it should be the Joule.

A very good idea, because we can trace back the value of goods and services down to the energy required to produce it.

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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:01 pm

The more I read about the monetary system, the more amazed I become that we continue this system.

It seems most people don't realise that the vast amount of money is created out of debt. When I accepted this a few years ago (during one of my previous obsessive moments about the monetary system), I assumed that while this is a strange notion, it is at least handbrake on unrestricted credit (and therefore hyperinflation). But two things didn't occur to me then, that are now apparent.

First, most importantly, is that (virtually) all economic growth is created out of debt. This has two implications - i. worrying about balancing national (or any) budgets is nonsensical, as all income used to balance a deficit is actually another debt in the system; and all interest needed to service existing debts has to be created out of further debt - essentially creating a perpetually indebted system; and ii. If everyone actually paid back their debts, there would be virtually no money in existence any more and would therefore lead to a massive collapse of the system. So we actually require debt to keep the system running. This is fucking madness, right?

Secondly, why are the profits for the simple electronic creation of money given to private banks (via the interest they earn on the money they created from nothing with a few 1's and 0's)? If it was decided that interest was needed to put a break on profligate waste and growing inflation, then why shouldn't the government collect that interest? That interest, which is essentially an invention out of nothing as well, could be used to reduce taxes. It would also address one of the biggest problems of putting the bulk of money creation into the hands of private banks - that is, most of the money creation is not focussed on productive investment, it's directed towards speculative activities, most notably housing bubbles. This has two major downsides - 1. It means that money supply far outstrips economic production, leading to a base level of inflation, which of course requires more money creation so that standard of living can be maintained. Further money/debt creation means a greater transfer of wealth from the community to the particularly privileged corporate institution of the bank. And 2, it's extremely undemocratic. It essentially leaves the bulk of spending decisions in society in the hands of those privileged corporate entities.

And then the next question becomes - why charge interest at all if it leads to essentially a ponzi scheme (by that I mean a system that require ever increasing amounts of future debt to service current debt)? One obvious problem of free money is that its value would rapidly approach zero (i.e. massive inflation). But perhaps there is a way around this? Essentially you'd need an independent body that has a significant role in determining what is a productive use of newly created money.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:45 am

Why no one care?
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by Svartalf » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:33 am

I care but I'mm affected by the tl:dr syndrome, I can't concentrate on the meaningful posts.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:35 am

Ok. But it's not that complicated if one accepts that banks create money out of thin air (which they must do under a fractional reserve system). Going into further debt to service current debts is insane. But that's exactly how our economy works due to the monetary system we have. It can't be any other way. It's systemically unsustainable, independent of other physical unsustainability issues. So, it's not a case of moving towards green energy or recycling or increased efficiency etc. NONE of that matters if the system itself is inherently unsustainable. Balancing the national budget is a meaningless exercise in terms of the whole system. It's like entropy. You can have local decreases in entropy, but over the whole system you must always have an increase in entropy.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by Svartalf » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:27 am

Well, then buy gold and silicon in prevision for the time when the whole system collapses under its own debt.
Fiat money may seem silly, but let's face it, there's too much use for gold and silver for them to be kept in safs as collateral for printed money or coined.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by laklak » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:44 pm

Calories, eh? I've got one fuck of a bank account already.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by PsychoSerenity » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:24 pm

pErvin wrote:Why no one care?
I have loads to say on this but currently not enough time to go into detail. Fundamentally all forms of money or currency will always also be a debt. You can move the zero point wherever you like on the axis but as soon as you start trading there is always a positive for every negative, and you need that to be able to say "here's a certain amount of value for which you can get paid back later."

That's going to be a major problem for an energy based currency. As the article said "If energy storage technology can be developed to the point at which several thousand kilowatt hours can (safely) be carried on something the size of a credit card, then we will have developed the perfect currency." - even if it were possible, we'd have to have vast amounts of energy stored up, not being put to use, sitting in these magic batteries just so we had something to trade with.

The general idea of having an economic system that more closely relates to real world things, the environment, and to what matters to us as people is a good one. But I don't think basing a currency on energy is the way to do it.
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:06 pm

I propose that the new unit of currency be 1 litre of pure alcohol.

You know it makes sense...
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Re: A New Monetary System?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:00 pm

@PS... There's nothing inherently wrong with debt. The real problem is debt with interest applied. It means that you can never repay the debt (even if repaying all debt wouldn't be a disaster for the current system). Money supply needs to grow with the economy so that you don't get inflation/deflation. We need a system that somehow provides free money as required to expand the economy (assuming that's what we want to do).
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