What's at stake in November
What's at stake in November
For most of history, the best of times have been those peaceful intervals when a culture can truly thrive. The operative word here may be "peaceful". Humanity can only reach its full potential when there is enough peace, space and prosperity for the spirit to grow. Government's prime function, then (though not its only one), is to provide that needed space for the spirit. "All the rest is commentary" (to coin a phrase.........). If the human spirit is free, humanity can develop a profounder self-knowledge for where we want to go.
If peace, then, is a preeminent value of wise government, that means that if some way is open in which reconciliation with enemies can be achieved without compromising the freedom of the human spirit, such a reconciliation should be seized. Ultimately, freely loving your enemies remains the ideal. Yes, enemies may sometimes wrong you, but if others are not hurt in your reconciliation and if your own spirit can remain free, then the evil done you need not be responded to in kind. For only in freely chosen peace can one ensure life and happiness.
Tyranny is the oppression of the human spirit. If tyranny is maintained, the human spirit can never be truly free to arrive at that deeper understanding of who and where humanity is. This is why Constantine declared for religious freedom: Allow everyone their places of "falsehood" "that this restoration of equal privileges to all will prevail to lead them into the straight path". (People forget it was Constantine's successor Theodosius who chose to impose Christianity by force, while Constantine simply wanted more freedom and equality for believers.) This is why Jefferson declared for true liberty, "based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it."
It has been recognized from Biblical times on that the social compact has no foundation absent a sense of responsibility for our most vulnerable and afflicted. Hence, the time-honored stress laid on the widow and the orphan as the most vulnerable of all. Any culture is only as stable as its weakest members. Charity and providing for each other are necessary for the ultimate stability and nurture of all. Feeding the indigent, tending the sick, sometimes giving without return, no enslavement, repudiating any caste system, equal legal standing for a national and a stranger, for a servant and a master, for a man and a woman -- all these are necessary to ensure against feelings of envy that can gnaw a culture to bits. It is truer today than it ever has been before that humanity is virtually one village.
Fairness in maintaining justice also prevents envy from springing up. This means no collective trials, and it entails no summary execution of "justice" without due process.
To ensure domestic peace and not just a quiet border, governments secure domestic tranquility most when they are patient and measured themselves. In treating both the citizen and those of another people, the stranger/the traveler/the "alien" among us, with due consideration, a culture and a nation thrive best. When serving others is seen as the highest purpose in life, a culture and a nation thrive best. If that which all do does not ultimately enhance the lives of some others in some way, our labors are in vain. If, say, prosperity also means debt enslavement for whole families, then something akin in spirit to the ancient Jubilee may sometimes be necessary. Financial manipulation run amok is prone to fits of destructive egoism that can ultimately gnaw a culture to bits just as much as envy can.
To afford the needed time for humanity to gain the necessary understanding of who and where we are, it is likewise necessary to provide a regular Sabbath for humanity, a regular moment of "down time", when higher thoughts and reflection are possible. This is (partly) what Jesus seems to reference when he says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Nature too and the soil also need the same space to regenerate, to recreate and renew itself (even livestock must rest on the Sabbath after all).
Finally, John Adams once said, "Without virtue there can be no political liberty." That means that ethics as a true discipline must be intrinsic to growing up. Ethics involves many different aspects in human behavior, but one of its primary concerns is the principle of reciprocity, and that ultimately means the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule means the practice of putting oneself in another's shoes. That requires the capacities of empathy and deep imagination and mastery over the ego. Anyone can practice this if the habit of empathy is instilled at an early age.
Stein
If peace, then, is a preeminent value of wise government, that means that if some way is open in which reconciliation with enemies can be achieved without compromising the freedom of the human spirit, such a reconciliation should be seized. Ultimately, freely loving your enemies remains the ideal. Yes, enemies may sometimes wrong you, but if others are not hurt in your reconciliation and if your own spirit can remain free, then the evil done you need not be responded to in kind. For only in freely chosen peace can one ensure life and happiness.
Tyranny is the oppression of the human spirit. If tyranny is maintained, the human spirit can never be truly free to arrive at that deeper understanding of who and where humanity is. This is why Constantine declared for religious freedom: Allow everyone their places of "falsehood" "that this restoration of equal privileges to all will prevail to lead them into the straight path". (People forget it was Constantine's successor Theodosius who chose to impose Christianity by force, while Constantine simply wanted more freedom and equality for believers.) This is why Jefferson declared for true liberty, "based on the illimitable freedom of the human mind. For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it."
It has been recognized from Biblical times on that the social compact has no foundation absent a sense of responsibility for our most vulnerable and afflicted. Hence, the time-honored stress laid on the widow and the orphan as the most vulnerable of all. Any culture is only as stable as its weakest members. Charity and providing for each other are necessary for the ultimate stability and nurture of all. Feeding the indigent, tending the sick, sometimes giving without return, no enslavement, repudiating any caste system, equal legal standing for a national and a stranger, for a servant and a master, for a man and a woman -- all these are necessary to ensure against feelings of envy that can gnaw a culture to bits. It is truer today than it ever has been before that humanity is virtually one village.
Fairness in maintaining justice also prevents envy from springing up. This means no collective trials, and it entails no summary execution of "justice" without due process.
To ensure domestic peace and not just a quiet border, governments secure domestic tranquility most when they are patient and measured themselves. In treating both the citizen and those of another people, the stranger/the traveler/the "alien" among us, with due consideration, a culture and a nation thrive best. When serving others is seen as the highest purpose in life, a culture and a nation thrive best. If that which all do does not ultimately enhance the lives of some others in some way, our labors are in vain. If, say, prosperity also means debt enslavement for whole families, then something akin in spirit to the ancient Jubilee may sometimes be necessary. Financial manipulation run amok is prone to fits of destructive egoism that can ultimately gnaw a culture to bits just as much as envy can.
To afford the needed time for humanity to gain the necessary understanding of who and where we are, it is likewise necessary to provide a regular Sabbath for humanity, a regular moment of "down time", when higher thoughts and reflection are possible. This is (partly) what Jesus seems to reference when he says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Nature too and the soil also need the same space to regenerate, to recreate and renew itself (even livestock must rest on the Sabbath after all).
Finally, John Adams once said, "Without virtue there can be no political liberty." That means that ethics as a true discipline must be intrinsic to growing up. Ethics involves many different aspects in human behavior, but one of its primary concerns is the principle of reciprocity, and that ultimately means the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule means the practice of putting oneself in another's shoes. That requires the capacities of empathy and deep imagination and mastery over the ego. Anyone can practice this if the habit of empathy is instilled at an early age.
Stein
- pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60774
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Bookmarking for when I've got 13 hours spare to read it. 

Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
- cronus
- Black Market Analyst
- Posts: 18122
- Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
- About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
- Location: United Kingdom
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Sometimes the good guys win and sometimes the neutral guys win but most of the time it is varying shades of bad at the top. Enough said. 

What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 39981
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Yeah, nuff said Crumpy, but humanity is amidst an unparalleled period of peace and prosperity which, paradoxically, is giving you the freedom and leisure to indulge your imagination with self-aurhored stories about how terrible things are. Stein's screed, though a bit religiousy, is a much needed antidote to that kind of all too common and wholly counter-productive apocalyptism.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: What's at stake in November
I question the analysis. The most prosperous countries were mostly those that pursued war to increase their control / influence over other territories. Roman Empire. European Empires in medieval times. Colonial powers between 1400 and 1900. The US in the 20th century to mention just those examples I am familiar with.
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 74177
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
In today's crowded world, prosperity by military adventurism no longer works, although in the past it often did...NineBerry wrote:I question the analysis. The most prosperous countries were mostly those that pursued war to increase their control / influence over other territories. Roman Empire. European Empires in medieval times. Colonial powers between 1400 and 1900. The US in the 20th century to mention just those examples I am familiar with.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 39981
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Stealing from the tribe over the hill is no longer an option.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: What's at stake in November
There are some hot wars at the moment that are the result of some powers (US, Russia, some European countries) trying to increase their control over resources and markets. Besides that there are wars fought with economic means (for example by China). These could turn hot in the future if the western powers feel their access to some resources and markets is threatened.
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 39981
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
I guess the question is, do these wars make the world a better place? And if so, it what way and who for?
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 74177
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Fixed!Brian Peacock wrote:I guess the question is, do these whores make the world a better place? And if so, it what way and who for?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- laklak
- Posts: 21022
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
- About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
- Location: Tannhauser Gate
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Well, yeah, but how is all that "at stake" in November? We're going to get Hillary, a neocon warhawk, habitual liar, and felonious sociopath, in charge of the largest military on the planet. If for some reason she self destructs then we get The Donald. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Neither is fit to be elected dog catcher, but it is what it is. There's fuck all at stake in November, because we're royally fucked either way.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 39981
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
It's called democracy bro. Suck it up pinkos.
/Seth-mode
/Seth-mode
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: What's at stake in November
Well, thanks for saying that. I do think that humanity is still capable of some pretty generous and constructive achievements on occasion. Heck, a strong argument could be made that just our being here still and not yet extinct is already a pretty good sign that we're really more good than bad. Not having destroyed ourselves yet and having developed a small number of pretty distinguished cultures now and then may show that there is a tiny balance, however precarious, that tends more toward humanity's functionality than dysfunction ultimately.Brian Peacock wrote:Yeah, nuff said Crumpy, but humanity is amidst an unparalleled period of peace and prosperity which, paradoxically, is giving you the freedom and leisure to indulge your imagination with self-aurhored stories about how terrible things are. Stein's screed, though a bit religiousy, is a much needed antidote to that kind of all too common and wholly counter-productive apocalyptism.
I don't feel, though, that breakthroughs like the Golden Rule, or an occasional generation of peace in certain pockets of the globe, or loving your enemies, or care for the widow and orphan, or due process, or treating the stranger like a human being, or the occasional forgiveness of debt, or a reliable and regular "down time" (all being items in the OP), etc., need be seen as "religiousy". They are instead prominent humanitarian enlightened breakthroughs that humanity has been smart enough to achieve from time to time in past cultures for whatever reasons. Some of those breakthroughs have managed to stick across cultures and millennia intermittently. Others haven't.
Cheers,
Stein
- Tero
- Just saying
- Posts: 51335
- Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
- About me: 15-32-25
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
How do we get women, then?Brian Peacock wrote:Stealing from the tribe over the hill is no longer an option.
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 74177
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: What's at stake in November
Trade, obviously. 5 spearpoints for a nubile lass sounds about right...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 16 guests