It's you or them, who do you choose?

Post by **Forty Two** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:What a crazy thought. Who is attacking you? Really weird well I suppose American society and all that.

Oh, shut the fuck up.

Post by **Forty Two** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:07 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Must be terrible living in a society looking over your shoulder the whole time while keeping a hand on your gun just in case.

Must be weird having such a limited knowledge of the world that you think the United States is like Clint Eastwood spaghetti-western.

Post by **Forty Two** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:14 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Get real Sean the question never arises here.

Dutch culture is far beyond hypothetical questions, we all know that.

Post by **Forty Two** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:50 pm

Another type of problem in this vein is the Trolley Problem -- "There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?"

Given those facts alone, I think the decision should be easy -- the greater good for the greater number is to pull the switch and let one die, rather than five.

However, what if that one person was yourself? Or, what if it's someone near and dear to you?

I realize that these situations never come up in the Netherlands....so, Dutchy will probably be responding that he's glad he doesn't live in a horrible country that has runaway trolleys running people over.... :-)

Post by **laklak** » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:09 pm

Shows how much the world has changed. Back in the day when everybody had 30 kids 'cuz most of them died anyway you'd just let them go and make a couple more.

Post by **pErvinalia** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:26 am

Forty Two wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:What a crazy thought. Who is attacking you? Really weird well I suppose American society and all that.
Oh, shut the fuck up.

Post by **Animavore** » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:41 am

I say that you don't pull the lever. If you pull the lever you are deliberately responsible for a person's death. If you don't you're not.

Post by **DaveDodo007** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:41 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Get real Sean the question never arises here.
Dutch culture is far beyond hypothetical questions, we all know that.

There is a reason why we limeys have negative epithets for 'Dutch', “In the English language, when something goes wrong, we put the word
Dutch in front of it.”

After helping them get independence from Spain they stabbed us in the back. Even now you still hear the expressions 'Dutch courage', 'strength or confidence gained from drinking alcohol.'

'Going Dutch', they are a bunch of mingebags.

Even Billy boy was at it.

Sir John Falstaff in The Merry Wives of Windsor:
“And in the height of this bath, when I was more than half stewed in grease,
like a Dutch dish, to be thrown into the Thames…”

Edward III, King John says:

“But, on the other side, to think what friends
King Edward hath retain’d in Netherland,
Among those ever-bibbing Epicures,
Those frothy Dutch men, puft with double beer,
That drink and swill in every place they come,
Doth not a little aggravate mine ire.”

Post by **Brian Peacock** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:49 am

Forty Two wrote:Another type of problem in this vein is the Trolley Problem -- "There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?"

Given those facts alone, I think the decision should be easy -- the greater good for the greater number is to pull the switch and let one die, rather than five.

However, what if that one person was yourself? Or, what if it's someone near and dear to you?

I realize that these situations never come up in the Netherlands....so, Dutchy will probably be responding that he's glad he doesn't live in a horrible country that has runaway trolleys running people over.... :-)

Respondents to the Trolley Problem invariably report that they'll pull the lever for the greater good, but when the problem is recast, and instead of a lever switching rails there's one that drops a fat man through a trap door onto the tracks from a bridge, stopping the train and saving the passengers (the same net result) people are, curiously, less inclined to pull the lever. The reasoning given that this is more like being an active participant in someone's death than the first scenario. When the problem is further amended to place you and the fat man on the bridge, and instead of a lever you are asked if you would push the fat man over the barrier to stop the train and save the passengers (same net results) people almost always decline - and the passengers die. People feel that this scenario is more akin to committing a murder than saving lives. This iteration of the Trolley Problem shows that although we have taboos about killing it is far easier to kill someone remotely rather than by direct physical interaction.

Post by **JimC** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:00 am

I am not remotely interested in killing anyone...

Post by **Brian Peacock** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:43 am

Post by **DaveDodo007** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:50 am

JimC wrote:I am not remotely interested in killing anyone...

Until the supply of gin runs out, every person has their tolerant level.

Post by **JimC** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:51 am

There is that...

Post by **Scot Dutchy** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:47 am

Hey Dodo learn a bit of history. Why is anything Dutch negative in English? Simple they were better at everything than the English. They even sailed up the Medway and destroyed the English fleet. Everywhere in the world the Dutch were there before the English. Far superior navigators and sailors but the Dutch were not a navy but just a loose band of adventurers and not interested in claiming land which why New Amsterdam was given up so easily. It was only when the the VoC (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie) was set up was the idea of having colonies evolved.
You will not find much about this in English history books.

Too embarrassed and does not fit into the perfect picture they have of their sailors.

Post by **Animavore** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:04 am

I'd use the big one as a meat shield while throwing the little ones at the perp then start swinging the middle one as I get close.

rationalia.com

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