Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predictions

[Scot Dutchy]

Trump wants to have a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries - Wilders wants to ban the Muslim holy book from the country on the grounds of hate speech. "Muslims in the Netherlands? Where will it end. We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilization as we know it." And, not to mention Pim Fortuyn.

Wilders is nowhere near any sort of power because the Dutch democratic system. He is a joke here. The same can be said about Fortuyn but the nuances of Dutch politics are too fine for the American political mind.

LOL -- nothing more smug than Dutchie.... keep on with your Dutch Exceptionalism.

Yes, indeed, the Dutch parliamentary system is too difficult for us to understand. What a finely crafted and honed system, which is immune to anyone but the most competent and fairest politicians....

As for Wilders, Newsweek had him surging in the polls just a few months ago - http://www.newsweek.com/dutch-anti-isla ... lls-419080 In December 2015 - "His party is currently leading opinion polls in the country, with one poll recently suggesting they would win 35 out of 150 if elections were held tomorrow." http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12 ... hird-time/ But, in a true democracy, like Holland, protections are in place, I'm sure, to ensure that the will of the people in that regard would not come to fruition....

Wilders can surge anywhere he wants to but he will never be in power. 35 out of 150 a great majority. The will of the people is precisely represented and that is why he will never be in power. The three major parties will close him out but that you seem to have problems understanding.
They have the majority or arithmetics also a problem.

BTW that is old news.
Yes PR for an American is impossible to understand as is democracy because you have never had it.

[Forty Two]

I noted the age of the articles -- a few months -- one from 12/2015.

And, the point was that the guy is not just some fringe -- if his party can take 35 out of 150 seats, that's not a majority, but it's hardly insignificant. I have no problem understanding the parliamentary system.

The US is just as democratic as your paltry little state, I mean country. Go back to your snug little Dutch bed, insulated by real countries that surround and protect you. It's easy to feel smug, superior and self satisfied there.

[Scot Dutchy]

I noted the age of the articles -- a few months -- one from 12/2015.

And, the point was that the guy is not just some fringe -- if his party can take 35 out of 150 seats, that's not a majority, but it's hardly insignificant. I have no problem understanding the parliamentary system.

The US is just as democratic as your paltry little state, I mean country. Go back to your snug little Dutch bed, insulated by real countries that surround and protect you. It's easy to feel smug, superior and self satisfied there.

Just where is America democratic? Yes my Dutch bed is very snug and comfortable.

I cant help that most Americans have to lie on a bed of nails. They have made their bed so... Sweet dreams.

[Forty Two]

Where is America democratic? Well, you reveal yourself to be the ignorant one.

City/County government: Americans vote for mayors, councilmen, commissioners, and other city/county/municipal officials, together with referenda on local matters.

State government: Every State has a popularly elected governor, and a State legislature which is like a bicameral parliament wherein representatives are popularly elected to represent various districts in the state and they make most of the laws that apply to residents of each given state. Also, state judges are generally elected by the people of the county in which the judge sits. Other officials are also elected.

Federal government: The federal government is made up of Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches. In the Legislature, known as Congress, there is a Senate and a House of Representatives. This is the lawmaking body ,equivalent to a parliament, and they make the laws. The President is in the Executive branch, and he is effectively elected by popular vote too, although the system is more complicated than that - I don't expect you to be able to understand it.

So, I guess the question is, in what way is the US, in your mind, not democratic? Are you under the impression that we're a dictatorship here?

Sure, the candidacy of Donald Trump must disabuse you of that notion. He was uniformly hated by the powers-that-be in the Republican party. Yet, he was able to push aside the major candidates and take the nomination of a major political party, precisely because he was popular with the voters, who voted, and their votes apparently counted, because Trump is still in the race.

What do you mean that most Americans have to lie on a bed of nails? Describe what you think life is like here.

Holland is Europe's little bitch. Your country is about as relevant to Europe as Rhode Island is to the United States. The last time your country was relevant to anything, you were committing genocide in Africa. It's a common opinion of the Dutch, though, that you folks are rude and arrogant, and you are quite representative of that stereotype. Rudeness is basically hereditary for the Dutch.

[DaveDodo007]

The Simpsons got it right.

[JimC]

Several people seem to be under the impression that democracies outside the US somehow have no limits on what governments can do, whereas the good old USA has some finely honed system based on its holy constitution...

All western democracies have some limits on what legislators can do, whether it be by a constitution (yes, other countries have them too...) or more often by the counterweight of an independent judiciary and the principles of common law.

[Seth]

Holland is Europe's little bitch. Your country is about as relevant to Europe as Rhode Island is to the United States. The last time your country was relevant to anything, you were committing genocide in Africa. It's a common opinion of the Dutch, though, that you folks are rude and arrogant, and you are quite representative of that stereotype. Rudeness is basically hereditary for the Dutch.

We should just turn off the pumps, that'll sort things out.

Anybody who lives below sea level is too fucking stupid to live, much less be allowed to vote on anything.

[Seth]

Several people seem to be under the impression that democracies outside the US somehow have no limits on what governments can do, whereas the good old USA has some finely honed system based on its holy constitution...

All western democracies have some limits on what legislators can do, whether it be by a constitution (yes, other countries have them too...) or more often by the counterweight of an independent judiciary and the principles of common law.

The problem with almost all European "democracies" is that their "constitutions" are instruments of positive liberties, which is to say that the document tells citizens what rights they have and it is a priori assumed that the government has any and all powers it chooses to exercise. Thus, unless there is a specific law protecting some specific right of the citizenry the government can (and often does) exactly whatever the fuck it wants to do and there is no legal recourse available to the citizenry when the government expands its own powers.

On the other hand, the US Constitution is a charter of negative liberties, which means that the people are sovereign and the government, particularly the federal government has no powers whatsoever other than those powers explicitly granted to it by the Constitution. This means that government cannot (if it's operating lawfully) make shit up and do whatever a bunch of bureaucrats or politicians think ought to be done, as is the case in "democracies" like the UK and Australia, among many (most) others.

And as sovereigns, the citizenry of the US retains the power and authority to revoke any authority or power previously granted to government at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all. Government cannot say "You can't abolish the Commerce Clause because that would destroy 95% of the federal government overnight, so we are going to go right on doing what we please."

If the people vote, according to the appointed process, to revoke the Commerce Clause authority granted to government, government cannot continue using it as a tool for it's own ends.

That's simply not the case anywhere in Europe. The government can simply ignore the people and their votes if it deems it necessary to do so.

And our final bulwark against our government (or any politicians or bureaucrats therein) refusing to relinquish power is our right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of putting down tyranny should it become necessary to do so, something which quite literally no one in Europe except perhaps the Swiss can possibly do because they have permitted government to become their masters and they the slaves.

[pErvinalia]

So, I guess the question is, in what way is the US, in your mind, not democratic?

Because Seth and Tyrannical said so.

[JimC]

Governments cannot ignore their legal systems.

[Brian Peacock]

They can in Britain if they drop out of the EU and rescind the ratification of the Universal Declaration of Human rights as implemented through the European Court on Human Rights.

[JimC]

They can in Britain if they drop out of the EU and rescind the ratification of the Universal Declaration of Human rights as implemented through the European Court on Human Rights.

Yes, but only by going through a legally available process, part of which is leaving a supra-national jurisdiction. What I really meant is that they cannot ignore habeus corpus and the rest of common law...

[Brian Peacock]

They can in the UK if the Home Secretary deems it in the national interest on security grounds. We have a system of Closed Material Proceedings in national security cases where defendants may not even be made aware of the full charges, or the evidence against them, or the witnesses brought against them. These proceedings are invoked by the Home Secretary not the judiciary. The role of the judiciary in considering public interest objections to the imposition of such measures, which would have previously fallen to the presiding judge, have now been done away with, and the rationality test for implementation falls to a government appointed panel who are limited to an assessment of whether the Home Secretary has followed the process whereby they are 'minded' to consider such proceedings necessary.

[JimC]

If such measures are used sparingly, where there is a true risk to the public/national security, and where there is some form of judicial oversight to prevent such actions being used willy-nilly, then they could be justified. Whether things have gone beyond that in the UK you would know better than me, but one hopes that the press would be all over blatant misuse of such provisions...

[Scot Dutchy]

Where is America democratic? Well, you reveal yourself to be the ignorant one.

Your system is not democratic. Not all votes are equal and the conditions of registration to vote is different in every state. Your voting systems are not the same. The whole thing is a mess. You can give all pretty names to each part of government but if it does not work you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Your country is a mess. Unemployment is what? Education Is what? Social cohesion? You dont even know what the word means. All you know in your political system is confrontation. Your legal system is corrupt and is open to more corruption. As for your police forces they are the laughing stock of the world. And we wont talk about UHC. You have none. Your infrastructure is falling down around your ears because of the lack of maintenance.

The Netherlands the bitch of Europe.

Both in world trade and politics we punch way above our weight.

Like the great yellow wonder your ignorance of Europe is just amazing.