Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predictions

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:31 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Pathetic but that is the way of American politics just pathetic. Please dont ever mention democracy. America would not know what that is even if it belted it in the face.
Oh, get off your high horse. It's not as if the Netherlands doesn't have its own corruption.

And, you have a weird hair politician too.

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Trump wants to have a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries - Wilders wants to ban the Muslim holy book from the country on the grounds of hate speech. "Muslims in the Netherlands? Where will it end. We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilization as we know it." And, not to mention Pim Fortuyn.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Seth » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:19 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Pathetic but that is the way of American politics just pathetic. Please dont ever mention democracy. America would not know what that is even if it belted it in the face.
We recognize it, and we soundly reject it as one of the Very Bad Things in life.
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Tyrannical » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:56 pm

The US is a republic, not a democracy........
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by JimC » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:39 am

The word democracy is often used in a very general sense, in that it involves a system where the votes of the population allow them at least some degree of say in how their country is run (as opposed to a dictatorship, for example). There are many ways in which this can be done, of course, and they vary in both complexity and effectiveness...
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:52 am

George W Bush wrote:The roots of our democracy can be traced to England, and to its Parliament...
http://www.ned.org/remarks-by-president ... niversary/
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Seth » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:46 am

eRvin wrote:
George W Bush wrote:The roots of our democracy can be traced to England, and to its Parliament...
http://www.ned.org/remarks-by-president ... niversary/
Interesting to see you quoting GWB as an authority on anything...even I think he's a Progressive fuckwit.
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:54 am

Well you and I obviously know he is a Marxist, but to most republicans he is a god. I'd quote other Merkan presidents, Repub and Dem, but as you know, they are all Marxists, so there would be no point.
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:14 am

forty two wrote:Trump wants to have a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries - Wilders wants to ban the Muslim holy book from the country on the grounds of hate speech. "Muslims in the Netherlands? Where will it end. We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilization as we know it." And, not to mention Pim Fortuyn.
Wilders is nowhere near any sort of power because the Dutch democratic system. He is a joke here. The same can be said about Fortuyn but the nuances of Dutch politics are too fine for the American political mind.
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am

eRvin wrote:Well you and I obviously know he is a Marxist, but to most republicans he is a god. I'd quote other Merkan presidents, Repub and Dem, but as you know, they are all Marxists, so there would be no point.
In common English usage, "republic" and "democracy" are the same thing. In a more precise usage, however, the US is a constitutionally limited representative and federated republic, which means that the government is assigned powers via the constitution which are limited (meaning there are some areas which the government cannot legitimately legislate). In the areas where it can legislate, it does so through elected representatives who are elected by a vote of the people in their jurisdiction.

The US President is, technically, not elected by a vote of the people per se. The US President is elected by a vote of delegates to an electoral college. The states are the entities that determined how to select their electors. Nothing in the Constitution says that the individual US citizens vote for the electors or the candidates for President. That's a process that was created state-by-state, and in fact, if you compare the populations of the states to the number of their electors, the ratio is not the same, because each state, no matter how small, gets 2 electors, and then a number of electors equal to the proportion of its population.

A lot of people think that democracy is the all-important ideological concept, and democracy = good. However, democracy is only one aspect of governance, and there are situations where the power of democracy should be properly limited, too. For example, it would not be good for religion to be put to majority vote, meaning that the majority could vote to make an official religion. some countries have that, but it invades a fundamental liberty. It would also not be good to allow democracy to dictate what political opinions are lawful or not.

From the standpoint of the individual, liberty is an important interest, not just democracy. Hence the "limited" bit. And, it's also not pragmatic to have individuals voting on every issue -- most people don't know enough about the nuts-and-bolts of certain issues to allow them to make informed decisions (e.g. should we allocate $x or $y to bridge repair, or should we wait until next year...). So ,that's where the "representative" bit comes in. And, then there is the "republic" bit, meaning we don't have a king or a monarch, but rather supreme power is in the people and their elected representatives. The limitations and the guarantee of a "republican form of government" are contained in the "constitution." And, since we are subdivided into several states with an overarching federal government, we are federated. Ergo - a constitutionally limited, federal, representative republic.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:53 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
forty two wrote:Trump wants to have a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries - Wilders wants to ban the Muslim holy book from the country on the grounds of hate speech. "Muslims in the Netherlands? Where will it end. We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilization as we know it." And, not to mention Pim Fortuyn.
Wilders is nowhere near any sort of power because the Dutch democratic system. He is a joke here. The same can be said about Fortuyn but the nuances of Dutch politics are too fine for the American political mind.
LOL -- nothing more smug than Dutchie.... keep on with your Dutch Exceptionalism.

Yes, indeed, the Dutch parliamentary system is too difficult for us to understand. What a finely crafted and honed system, which is immune to anyone but the most competent and fairest politicians....

As for Wilders, Newsweek had him surging in the polls just a few months ago - http://www.newsweek.com/dutch-anti-isla ... lls-419080 In December 2015 - "His party is currently leading opinion polls in the country, with one poll recently suggesting they would win 35 out of 150 if elections were held tomorrow." http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12 ... hird-time/ But, in a true democracy, like Holland, protections are in place, I'm sure, to ensure that the will of the people in that regard would not come to fruition....
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:26 pm

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:40 pm

Sounds like my last fart.. :coffee:
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Seth » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:04 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
forty two wrote:Trump wants to have a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries - Wilders wants to ban the Muslim holy book from the country on the grounds of hate speech. "Muslims in the Netherlands? Where will it end. We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilization as we know it." And, not to mention Pim Fortuyn.
Wilders is nowhere near any sort of power because the Dutch democratic system. He is a joke here. The same can be said about Fortuyn but the nuances of Dutch politics are too fine for the American political mind.
And yet he's an elected official, which says much about the "Dutch democratic system." Or possibly little, depending.
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Seth » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:09 pm

Forty Two wrote:
eRvin wrote:Well you and I obviously know he is a Marxist, but to most republicans he is a god. I'd quote other Merkan presidents, Repub and Dem, but as you know, they are all Marxists, so there would be no point.
In common English usage, "republic" and "democracy" are the same thing. In a more precise usage, however, the US is a constitutionally limited representative and federated republic, which means that the government is assigned powers via the constitution which are limited (meaning there are some areas which the government cannot legitimately legislate). In the areas where it can legislate, it does so through elected representatives who are elected by a vote of the people in their jurisdiction.

The US President is, technically, not elected by a vote of the people per se. The US President is elected by a vote of delegates to an electoral college. The states are the entities that determined how to select their electors. Nothing in the Constitution says that the individual US citizens vote for the electors or the candidates for President. That's a process that was created state-by-state, and in fact, if you compare the populations of the states to the number of their electors, the ratio is not the same, because each state, no matter how small, gets 2 electors, and then a number of electors equal to the proportion of its population.

A lot of people think that democracy is the all-important ideological concept, and democracy = good. However, democracy is only one aspect of governance, and there are situations where the power of democracy should be properly limited, too. For example, it would not be good for religion to be put to majority vote, meaning that the majority could vote to make an official religion. some countries have that, but it invades a fundamental liberty. It would also not be good to allow democracy to dictate what political opinions are lawful or not.

From the standpoint of the individual, liberty is an important interest, not just democracy. Hence the "limited" bit. And, it's also not pragmatic to have individuals voting on every issue -- most people don't know enough about the nuts-and-bolts of certain issues to allow them to make informed decisions (e.g. should we allocate $x or $y to bridge repair, or should we wait until next year...). So ,that's where the "representative" bit comes in. And, then there is the "republic" bit, meaning we don't have a king or a monarch, but rather supreme power is in the people and their elected representatives. The limitations and the guarantee of a "republican form of government" are contained in the "constitution." And, since we are subdivided into several states with an overarching federal government, we are federated. Ergo - a constitutionally limited, federal, representative republic.
Fine exegesis but entirely wasted on this crowd.

Socialists don't want or like constitutionally-limited government or respect for individual rights because it inhibits their ability to get free stuff from the government and they believe that the individual and his rights are of no importance whatever and the collective is all-important...except of course for THEIR individual interests, which must always be served even if it means enslaving other people to their service.

Is this mindset a bit hypocritical and, well, utterly insane?

Yes, but it does make it easy to identify them.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:43 pm

Bernie Bros aren't Marxist. They just like marching under the Soviet banner.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07 ... -us-flags/

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“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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