Defence and the Free Market

[Scot Dutchy]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

[Forty Two]

Of course they do. But, there isn't just one market. You can't have two markets side by side with completely different internal rules and standards and call it a "free market."

And, free markets are not anarchy with no rules and regulation. You talk like you've never taken an economics class in your life, eRv. I mean, this is Econ 101 stuff. Having a tariff doesn't mean you don't have a free market economy.

[Scot Dutchy]

How can it be free if you have tariffs?

[Forty Two]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

And that isn't a free market - it's one closed market (China) operating under one set of rules and standards, undercutting another market. That's why free market capitalism needs governments to exist -- you have to have rules -- capitalism doesn't exist in a state of nature or anarchy. Capitalism doesn't mean an every man for himself free for all with no regulations.

[Scot Dutchy]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

And that isn't a free market - it's one closed market (China) operating under one set of rules and standards, undercutting another market. That's why free market capitalism needs governments to exist -- you have to have rules -- capitalism doesn't exist in a state of nature or anarchy. Capitalism doesn't mean an every man for himself free for all with no regulations.

But that is exactly what a free market is; NO FUCKING RULES.

[Forty Two]

How can it be free if you have tariffs?

Oy, man. It's not an it - it's a they. You need a tariff when there is difference from one market to the other. You can't have China allowing slavery in their factories, with barely a safety measure required, competing against a country with high labor and safety standards. That's not a free market. The tariff is needed to level the field. Free market doesn't mean $0 tariffs and no regulation, for fuck's sake. What is this absurdity you folks are on about?

[Forty Two]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

And that isn't a free market - it's one closed market (China) operating under one set of rules and standards, undercutting another market. That's why free market capitalism needs governments to exist -- you have to have rules -- capitalism doesn't exist in a state of nature or anarchy. Capitalism doesn't mean an every man for himself free for all with no regulations.

But that is exactly what a free market is; NO FUCKING RULES.

You can cite an economist or economic theory that exists in real life that means "no fucking rules?" What is this bizarre notion? No fucking rules? Free market capitalism REQUIRES rules to exist. It's not dog-eat-dog every person for himself or herself. There were always rules. Even Adam Smith and his invisible hand and laissez-faire capitalist theory at its height did not envision an economy without rules. Where do you guys get this stuff?

How would one write a check if you didn't have rules? Fuck, what's it mean to endorse a check? That's a rule -- sign the back, anyone can cash it. It's not a natural law or something - it's a "rule applicable to the market to facilitate exchange" --- What about a monetary system in general? Rules for transfer of the risk of loss on shipments and other issues related to the sales of goods? Wage law? Safety regulations? Regulations regarding places of public accommodation and nondiscrimination?

Free market capitalism is not fucking anarchy.

[Scot Dutchy]

No? It is not a free market then is it?
It is a market with rules ain't it sunshine and that is not a free market because it 'as rules just like the boozer. Ye cant just take beer can ye because there are rules.

[Seth]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

And that isn't a free market - it's one closed market (China) operating under one set of rules and standards, undercutting another market. That's why free market capitalism needs governments to exist -- you have to have rules -- capitalism doesn't exist in a state of nature or anarchy. Capitalism doesn't mean an every man for himself free for all with no regulations.

But that is exactly what a free market is; NO FUCKING RULES.

Nope. Just no government interference with the voluntary associations and contracts and no government meddling in picking winners and losers in the markets for political reasons.

[Seth]

No? It is not a free market then is it?
It is a market with rules ain't it sunshine and that is not a free market because it 'as rules just like the boozer. Ye cant just take beer can ye because there are rules.

You are using a strawman version of what "free market" actually means. It doesn't mean what you insist it does.

[pErvinalia]

Of course they do. But, there isn't just one market. You can't have two markets side by side with completely different internal rules and standards and call it a "free market."

And, free markets are not anarchy with no rules and regulation. You talk like you've never taken an economics class in your life, eRv. I mean, this is Econ 101 stuff. Having a tariff doesn't mean you don't have a free market economy.

Where did I say they have "no rules and regulations", Mr Strawman?

Regarding tariffs, a market is definitionally less free the more tariffs it has.

[pErvinalia]

Or countries with plenty of money move in a undercut local prices. This happened in Mexico regarding the tourist trade in local goods. China came in with goods only the tenth of the price and killed local home grown trade. These were people at the lowest end of Mexico's society just scraping a living.

And that isn't a free market - it's one closed market (China) operating under one set of rules and standards, undercutting another market. That's why free market capitalism needs governments to exist -- you have to have rules -- capitalism doesn't exist in a state of nature or anarchy. Capitalism doesn't mean an every man for himself free for all with no regulations.

But that is exactly what a free market is; NO FUCKING RULES.

You can cite an economist or economic theory that exists in real life that means "no fucking rules?" What is this bizarre notion? No fucking rules? Free market capitalism REQUIRES rules to exist. It's not dog-eat-dog every person for himself or herself. There were always rules. Even Adam Smith and his invisible hand and laissez-faire capitalist theory at its height did not envision an economy without rules. Where do you guys get this stuff?

Where did you learn to read?! What "guys"??

[piscator]

Fuck all this shit. I'm going to smoke sum dope I bought from my neighbor.
He bought some lights 'n shit, now he growin' dope and profiting!

He call it, "Capitalism", yo?

[cronus]

Fuck all this shit. I'm going to smoke sum dope I bought from my neighbor.
He bought some lights 'n shit, now he growin' dope and profiting!

He call it, "Capitalism", yo?

Shorting that portfolio really worked out then?

[Seth]

Of course they do. But, there isn't just one market. You can't have two markets side by side with completely different internal rules and standards and call it a "free market."

And, free markets are not anarchy with no rules and regulation. You talk like you've never taken an economics class in your life, eRv. I mean, this is Econ 101 stuff. Having a tariff doesn't mean you don't have a free market economy.

Where did I say they have "no rules and regulations", Mr Strawman?

Regarding tariffs, a market is definitionally less free the more tariffs it has.

You've made that false claim about free markets and Libertarianism hundreds of times.