Is Islam inherently homophobic?

[Seth]

Photophobia is not an irrational fear of sunlight - as previously noted - so the claim that this is all it can ever mean doesn't hold. Seth is merely setting himself up as de Grande Validator Lexicographique in order to parse the claim that discriminating, hateful bigotry towards LGBT people is 'logical and rational'.

Pettifoggery.

[Seth]

There is no mention of homophobia anywhere there. Can you even read?

Mendacious pettifoggery. The modifier "phobia" controls the definition of "homophobia" as you well know. You're just trolling.

No it doesn't. Words have meaning, Seth. Look up homophobia in a dictionary. It doesn't mean what you claim (in this thread, at least; you agree with the dictionary definition in another thread; so who's trolling you say? )

I did, and I quoted them.

[Seth]

So please explain to us under your "logic", "reason" and "lexicology" how oil "fears" water (i.e. is hydrophobic).

I would, and can easily do so, but I don't care to waste my time on your pettifogging trollish bilge.

[Seth]

In some ways, all that matters is how the words are typically used by the majority of people who use them. Both words under discussion are used in quite different ways to conditions with clinical definitions, such as arachnophobia. Both are used in an overtly political context, and often used in a perjorative and exaggerated way to serve certain agendas. I am not implying anything negative, or anything political when I label someone as arachnophobic after observing their behaviour.

Good points. Now, who comprises the "majority" and how does that majority typically use the word. I doubt one can rationally argue that gays are in the majority anywhere in the world, so according to your metric their usage doesn't matter, whereas non-Muslims are (in non-Muslim majority countries) in the majority so "islamophobia" meets your metric.

The point is that you demonstrate exactly why we should eschew vague popularity polls and political posturing when using language and use it properly, according to it's agreed-upon definitions and meanings. Doing so makes communication much more effective and minimizes confusion.

[Seth]

Here's an interesting discussion on exactly this issue:

English (language): Is there an appropriate Latin combining term meaning "dislike", instead of Phobia?
Hundreds of -phobias have been described, representing fear, usually irrational fear, of something.

Homophobia (origin described in Mark Barton's answer to Why do we use the term 'homophobia'? post) was originally defined a "dread of being in close quarters with homosexuals" - an appropriate use of -phobia.

But it has come to be used to describe people who prefer not being around it, rather than people who fear it. Rebecca Williams has suggested "homomiseo" for hatred of homosexuals, though that's not really "dislike" either. (And, without a greatly expanded word, I don't know how to depict dislike of being around a situation, unlike dislike of particular people.)

Similarly, I see Hydrophobic and Hygrophobic (and -philous) frequently. Even if something repels water, I don't think fear is involved.

Is there a suitable Latin term for dislike, not fear?
3 Answers
Andrew McKenzie
Andrew McKenzie, Linguist, native speaker.
734 Views • Andrew has 90+ answers in English (language)
Well, actually, you'd want a Greek root for "dislike", not a Latin one. Phobia comes from the Greek for `fear' (phobos); the Latin term for `fear' is terror, which you'll recognize. The Latin word for dislike or hatred was odium, where we get the modern term "odious".

What about Greek, then? We use their term misos for dislike or hatred. It's found terms like misanthropy (mis 'dislike' + anthropos 'man(kind)').

But mishomo sounds ridiculous, and it is lacking a bit at the end. Mishomia maybe?

The tricky bit is that homo in Greek just means "the same", hence (homo+sexual = same-sex). The word homophobia is an English construction using our tendency to blend words together (parts of two stems), like cheese+burger or edu+tainment. Literally it would mean "fear of the same", which isn't quite what homophobia means in English.

What about replacing homo with the appropriate Greek word? Well, there wasn't really a "word" in Ancient Greek or Latin that we could translate as "homosexual"... sexual attitudes were organized differently from ours, really, even before recent times.

Homosexuality in ancient Greece
Homosexuality in ancient Rome
Written 15 Jul 2015 • View Upvotes
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Dmitriy Genzel
Dmitriy Genzel, knows some Latin
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I assume you want a noun form. I think the most common term might be odium (which is nice because it is an English word too, and at least "odious" is somewhat common), or maybe invidia, although that might be more "envy" than "dislike". There's also aversatio which means "aversion".
Written 15 Jul 2015 • View Upvotes
Frank Dauenhauer
Frank Dauenhauer, I love to know the history (etymology) of words and phrases.
171 Views
Odio, invidia, alienatio, antipathia, abominatio, aversatio.
Written 19 Jul 2015 • View Upvotes
Source: https://www.quora.com/English-language- ... -of-Phobia

Thus:

Homoodio
Homoinvidius
Homoalienatio
Homoantipathia
Homoabominato
Homoaversatio

I favor the last, "homoaversatio" because it does not contain an inherent pejorative against homosexuality like (the modern equivalents) "odious," "invidious" or "abomination." Rather it clearly states that the individual has an "aversion" to homosexuals, which is in most cases exactly the case.

However, "antipathy," and "alienation" are other reasonable possibilities.

So I choose "homoaversatio" as my noun of choice in the future.

[Seth]

It's less clear than that. It's not about a "majority" as there is no vote count. It's about usages, and being clear about what usage is being used at the time. Homophobic can mean what Seth means it to mean, and it can mean what eRv means it to mean. The resolution to this debate is to simply clarify how one is using the word. There is no inherent meaning or officially codified correct meaning. There are only arguments as to applicable meaning, and some arguments are stronger than others.

It's a weak argument to say that homophobia means love of record albums. That is likely a usage used by nobody. It's a stronger argument to say that homophobia means the clinical psychiatric condition wherein a person has a fear of or anxiety regarding homosexuals. It's also a strong argument that it's common English usage in the non-clinical setting means dislike or prejudice against gay people. The latter definition is not "wrong."

It certainly is. "Dislike" and "prejudice" are two entirely different things and lumping them together under the prejudicial and pejorative word "homophobic" is, as I keep saying, a mendacious and incorrect use of language as a political weapon.

If someone dislikes homosexuals or homosexuality then the proper usage is to say "those who dislike homosexuals," and if their actions meet the standards of "prejudice" then that's what should be said. If they are medically phobic about homosexual, then and only then is the term "homophobia" an appropriate and proper, not to mention fair and rational, usage.

[Seth]

I'm not Islamophobic, I'm Islamocareful. I keep a close eye on those buggers. If they start their Allah Akbaring I GTFO.

Islamovigilan!

[JimC]

Dislike of gays may not always lead to prejudice, but it often does.

And the dislike itself is not exactly neutral, such as disliking bananas. The dislike of a broad group of people with little in common than their sexuality, rather than a specific individual because they have annoyed you, is somewhat irrational, and can often disappear if people are prepared to be open-minded, and meet gay people in everyday settings. Once the irrational dislike disappears, so will any remaining prejudice against the group as a whole.

[Hermit]

[pErvinalia]

Photophobia is not an irrational fear of sunlight - as previously noted - so the claim that this is all it can ever mean doesn't hold. Seth is merely setting himself up as de Grande Validator Lexicographique in order to parse the claim that discriminating, hateful bigotry towards LGBT people is 'logical and rational'.

Except that's never a claim I made, so you tell a lie.

So why when you were asked to refer to a dictionary definition of "homophobia" did you supply a definition of only "phobia"? Logic, you suck at it.

[pErvinalia]

So please explain to us under your "logic", "reason" and "lexicology" how oil "fears" water (i.e. is hydrophobic).

I would, and can easily do so, but I don't care to waste my time on your pettifogging trollish bilge.

You've got fuck all, Seth.

[Seth]

Dislike of gays may not always lead to prejudice, but it often does.

And the dislike itself is not exactly neutral, such as disliking bananas. The dislike of a broad group of people with little in common than their sexuality, rather than a specific individual because they have annoyed you, is somewhat irrational, and can often disappear if people are prepared to be open-minded, and meet gay people in everyday settings. Once the irrational dislike disappears, so will any remaining prejudice against the group as a whole.

Indeed. But it helps if some gay people aren't acting like fucking assholes all the time in public. They tend to get the press and therefore drive public perception of gays, which is bad for gays.

Disliking some asswipe who sues a Christian baker out of business out of petulance and spite isn't in the least irrational.

[JimC]

Dislike of gays may not always lead to prejudice, but it often does.

And the dislike itself is not exactly neutral, such as disliking bananas. The dislike of a broad group of people with little in common than their sexuality, rather than a specific individual because they have annoyed you, is somewhat irrational, and can often disappear if people are prepared to be open-minded, and meet gay people in everyday settings. Once the irrational dislike disappears, so will any remaining prejudice against the group as a whole.

Indeed. But it helps if some gay people aren't acting like fucking assholes all the time in public. They tend to get the press and therefore drive public perception of gays, which is bad for gays.

Disliking some asswipe who sues a Christian baker out of business out of petulance and spite isn't in the least irrational.

Any particular group will contain a certain percentage of arseholes, but generally, that is not linked to the defining characteristics of the group they belong to.

Even elite groups such as maths and physics teachers contain a certain percentage of arseholes, as difficult as that may be to believe...

[Forty Two]

It's less clear than that. It's not about a "majority" as there is no vote count. It's about usages, and being clear about what usage is being used at the time. Homophobic can mean what Seth means it to mean, and it can mean what eRv means it to mean. The resolution to this debate is to simply clarify how one is using the word. There is no inherent meaning or officially codified correct meaning. There are only arguments as to applicable meaning, and some arguments are stronger than others.

It's a weak argument to say that homophobia means love of record albums. That is likely a usage used by nobody. It's a stronger argument to say that homophobia means the clinical psychiatric condition wherein a person has a fear of or anxiety regarding homosexuals. It's also a strong argument that it's common English usage in the non-clinical setting means dislike or prejudice against gay people. The latter definition is not "wrong."

It certainly is. "Dislike" and "prejudice" are two entirely different things and lumping them together under the prejudicial and pejorative word "homophobic" is, as I keep saying, a mendacious and incorrect use of language as a political weapon.

However, that is an accepted definition of the word in common English usage. You may not like it, but that's the fact. And, dislike and prejudice can be used in the same definition. It just means that either of those things can qualify someone as homophobic. it doesn't equate the two things.

If someone dislikes homosexuals or homosexuality then the proper usage is to say "those who dislike homosexuals," and if their actions meet the standards of "prejudice" then that's what should be said. If they are medically phobic about homosexual, then and only then is the term "homophobia" an appropriate and proper, not to mention fair and rational, usage.

Someone who doesn't like homosexuals is generally referred to as a homophobe. Like it or not. And, you are wrong about the limited usage of "homophobia." Most dictionaries define it as a fear or hatred of homosexuals -- some iteration of that. It's common English usage is not a clinical one.

[Seth]

It's less clear than that. It's not about a "majority" as there is no vote count. It's about usages, and being clear about what usage is being used at the time. Homophobic can mean what Seth means it to mean, and it can mean what eRv means it to mean. The resolution to this debate is to simply clarify how one is using the word. There is no inherent meaning or officially codified correct meaning. There are only arguments as to applicable meaning, and some arguments are stronger than others.

It's a weak argument to say that homophobia means love of record albums. That is likely a usage used by nobody. It's a stronger argument to say that homophobia means the clinical psychiatric condition wherein a person has a fear of or anxiety regarding homosexuals. It's also a strong argument that it's common English usage in the non-clinical setting means dislike or prejudice against gay people. The latter definition is not "wrong."

It certainly is. "Dislike" and "prejudice" are two entirely different things and lumping them together under the prejudicial and pejorative word "homophobic" is, as I keep saying, a mendacious and incorrect use of language as a political weapon.

However, that is an accepted definition of the word in common English usage.

Not really.

You may not like it, but that's the fact.

No, it's what the lexicological left wants to be "the fact." But it's not, it's merely a politically motivated lie and I will continue to point this out.

And, dislike and prejudice can be used in the same definition. It just means that either of those things can qualify someone as homophobic. it doesn't equate the two things.

No it doesn't because neither dislike nor prejudice qualify as a phobia.

If someone dislikes homosexuals or homosexuality then the proper usage is to say "those who dislike homosexuals," and if their actions meet the standards of "prejudice" then that's what should be said. If they are medically phobic about homosexual, then and only then is the term "homophobia" an appropriate and proper, not to mention fair and rational, usage.

Someone who doesn't like homosexuals is generally referred to as a homophobe. Like it or not.

No, they aren't. The are only referred to that way by homosexual radicals engaging Marxist Big Lie tactics to try to deliberately force public perception.

And, you are wrong about the limited usage of "homophobia." Most dictionaries define it as a fear or hatred of homosexuals -- some iteration of that. It's common English usage is not a clinical one.

So, not "dislike." Thanks for admitting your argument is shite.