Is Catholicism inherently homophobic?

[Brian Peacock]

Recent events have led me to reconsider what homophobia is and where its roots actually lie. I live in a country where being a homosexual, queer, gay, bi, trans, etc isn't really much of an issue in the social sense; we have granted civil and legal equality to same-sex couples and the sky didn't fall down and there was no rioting in the streets - it was basically a non-issue. Yet we still hear rumblings from self-declared moral authorities that the love that dare not speak its name is a personal moral failing and a general social ill.

The Holy See, for example, have gone to great lengths to justify why same-sex couples should not be granted civil and legal equality, having 'concluded' that there are 'no grounds' to justify same-sex marriage and that same-sex marriage is "not even remotely analogous". This only goes to bolster the view expressed in a survey last year that Catholicism is an inherently, and perhaps even the most, homophobic of religions.

According to a recent study, the Catholic church is the religious organization that is perceived to be the most hostile to LGBT people:

http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-conte ... REPORT.pdf (scroll down to page 3)

This is interesting, because this same study indicates that a majority of Catholics (56 percent) are in favor of same-sex marriage, but 73 percent of Catholics believe that their fellow co-religionists are against marriage equality. Even among Catholics who are regular mass-goers, the percentage who support same-sex marriage is 50 percent. Assuming these finds are correct (I have seen other studies that reach the same findings with regard to Catholic support of same-sex marriage, so I believe it is an accurate reflection of reality), what accounts for this discrepancy between support for same-sex marriage in the pews and the perception that the Catholic church is uniquely hostile to LGBT people?

I think the difference between the Catholic church and other equally homophobic evangelical groups is that the former is highly centralized, not just in terms of teaching content and governance, but in determining what message is send out. Because evangelical churches tend to be more decentralized, they can always claim that the more extreme homophobic messages are just the rantings and ravings of “some guy” and not representative of the denomination as a whole, whereas the Vatican takes great pains to ensure that all of its priests and bishops are “on message.” Despite the “People of God” rhetoric that came out as the result of Vatican II, the Catholic church is still largely seen as comprising the hierarchy with the laity just kind of “there.” Consequently, it makes no difference what the people in the pews think so long as the ordained class is more or less united in opposing LGBT rights.

(more)

Of course, the Holy See are not alone here, as far as self-appointed moral authorities go they are merely at the vanguard of a phalanx of religious organisations positively queueing up to denounce the existence and life-choice of LGBT people.

OK, so you generally don't find the acolytes and votaries of Catholicism throwing gay men off tall buildings, but their insidious and uncompromising language, employed to bolster a fundamentally uncompromising stance in opposition LGBT rights, is unquestioningly homophobic, and sets a high bar for declarations of automatic intolerance from the mainstream to the fringes of Christianity.

Catholicism seeks to normalise homophobia, dressing its self-declared bigotry in the language of 'compassion' and 'love', the cultural and social impact of which has far more sway within Westernised societies than any other source. Catholicism is inherently homophobic.

[cronus]

Don't know. I only know one Roman Catholic and he's round the twist.

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah, that's a rather small sample. But you've heard of Catholicism I presume; you're familiar with its basic gist and thrust?

[Animavore]

Given Ireland was the first country in the World to legalise gay marriage through democratic means I'm going to have to say, no.

[Forty Two]

Wouldn't suggesting that Catholicism is inherently homophobic be Catholaphobic? After all, Catholicism is not some unified block of beliefs. There are many different versions and beliefs in Catholicism, and certainly not all Catholics are homophobic, and certainly not all Catholics are against gay marriage and civil unions. That's what we hear regarding Islam, right? Can't criticize Islamic doctrine, because there is no "officially codified version of Islam", etc.? It's racist!

But, there is an answer to that! Criticism of Islam as homophobic, xenophobic, racist, supremacist, sexist, etc., is just a code word for racism, and Muslims are an oppressed and marginalized group. Catholics are a dominant, oppressor group, so it's different.

[Scot Dutchy]

Wouldn't suggesting that Catholicism is inherently homophobic be Catholaphobic? After all, Catholicism is not some unified block of beliefs. There are many different versions and beliefs in Catholicism, and certainly not all Catholics are homophobic, and certainly not all Catholics are against gay marriage and civil unions. That's what we hear regarding Islam, right? Can't criticize Islamic doctrine, because there is no "officially codified version of Islam", etc.? It's racist!

But, there is an answer to that! Criticism of Islam as homophobic, xenophobic, racist, supremacist, sexist, etc., is just a code word for racism, and Muslims are an oppressed and marginalized group. Catholics are a dominant, oppressor group, so it's different.

What is Catholicism? On my xtianing cert it says I was baptised into the Holy Catholic Church of England which is the Anglican church.

What we call the catholic church is generally meant the Roman or Latin catholic church of which there is only one. There are 23 Eastern catholic churches which have different heads of church next to 24 independent catholic churches. Catholic only means universal.

[Forty Two]

There are main divisions within Catholicism, and not all Catholics accept the same ideals. A main division would be pre-Vatican II Catholics, and post Vatican II Catholics. Some priests are open to gay marriage, etc. So, if folks are going to accuse critics of Islam of Islamaphobia because they are scorning a religion of which there are many different schools of thought, then the same is true of Christianity and Catholicism. Even the Roman Catholic Church has divisions and differences of opinion.

Saying Catholicism is homophobic or racist or sexist is the same as saying Islam, or Sunni Islam, is homophobic or racist or sexist. Is there any reason the former would be acceptable but the latter not?

[pErvinalia]

Because Exi said so..

[laklak]

Well that's settled then.

[pErvinalia]

[Svartalf]

Depends... mainstream Catholics tend to be pretty tolerant, but there always are a very vocal minority of practicing rigorists, and those are hostile, plus they are those who open their mouths, demonstrate and whatnot, whereas the silent majority remains silent, regarding for the most part that the problem is a non issue and the rigorists have don't have enough influence to really cause trouble, only a tiny minority rising up to support the rights of the LGBT.

[Brian Peacock]

Wouldn't suggesting that Catholicism is inherently homophobic be Catholaphobic? After all, Catholicism is not some unified block of beliefs.

I think its clear what I mean by my reference to the 'Holy See.' Your argument from a lack of specificity has fallen on stony ground my child. Seven Hail Mary's and an I Should Coco for you.

[Brian Peacock]

Depends... mainstream Catholics tend to be pretty tolerant, but there always are a very vocal minority of practicing rigorists, and those are hostile, plus they are those who open their mouths, demonstrate and whatnot, whereas the silent majority remains silent, regarding for the most part that the problem is a non issue and the rigorists have don't have enough influence to really cause trouble, only a tiny minority rising up to support the rights of the LGBT.

I thought the findings of the survey were interesting, in as much as they suggest that while Catholic congregations are roughly split 50:50 on same-sex marriage they also think that around 70% of their fellow Catholics are against it. This suggest that even so-caled LGBT-tolerant Catholics think the Church is mostly intolerant to LGBT - and of course, doctrinally it is, 100% intolerant.

[Scot Dutchy]

Depends... mainstream Catholics tend to be pretty tolerant, but there always are a very vocal minority of practicing rigorists, and those are hostile, plus they are those who open their mouths, demonstrate and whatnot, whereas the silent majority remains silent, regarding for the most part that the problem is a non issue and the rigorists have don't have enough influence to really cause trouble, only a tiny minority rising up to support the rights of the LGBT.

I thought the findings of the survey were interesting, in as much as they suggest that while Catholic congregations are roughly split 50:50 on same-sex marriage they also think that around 70% of their fellow Catholics are against it. This suggest that even so-caled LGBT-tolerant Catholics think the Church is mostly intolerant to LGBT - and of course, doctrinally it is, 100% intolerant.

The thing is how much power does the church have in European countries outside of Poland of course?

[Brian Peacock]

I think the influence they have extends beyond the pews, not least because they describe themselves as compassionate and loving and stake a normative claim to default rectitude - Catholics are 'nice'. As I said, their hateful bigotry is insidious and offers cover to other more 'out-there' Christian denominations - even if they're not throwing gay men off high buildings they are still involved in normalising homophobia and intolerance.