Election 2016 Thread

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:07 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:It always amazes that there are actual people who support him. To think this idiot is going to do anything good for the country requires a level of reasoning only found in worms.
That's true to the extend that the likelihood of Trump being able to accomplish the task of retaining, much less retrieving, US manufacturing, etc., is not high. That being said, Hillary doesn't even want to try. And, to think that Hillary is going to do anything good for the country requires tortured and irrational wish-thinking, contrary to all of the facts and history.

She's a war hawk, and was behind much of the Libya fiasco. She was pro Iraq War. Pro Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo and Serbia. She supports battlefield nukes. She is a hawk on Iran. She is bought and paid for by Wall Street, we know that - we can see that. You'd be concerned about the funding from Wall Street, if they were buying Donald Trump, wouldn't you?

Further, the other alternatives, a socialist named Bernie Sanders - who says he's a socialist, not merely a "social democrat." Or, a bunch of whack-job religious conservatives like Ted Cruz -- or Hillary Clinton with a red tie, Mitt Romney? John Kasich? Marco Rubio?

I mean - pickens are thin. So, when you're down to deciding who to vote for, we have someone, albeit who speaks indelicately to say the least, who is a worker. A guy focused on success. A guy whose ideas, by and large, are rather liberal. Fair trade, he calls for. Fair trade deals -- stop allowing low wage produced products to be dumped on the US market to undercut US producers (costing American jobs and depressing wages). Fair geopolitical relations, having our allies pay some of the freight on defense issues, and working to allow them the means to defend themselves better. A halt to initiation of force, but a promise robust and devastating response when attacked, particularly with regard to ISIS now, where rather than secretly running guns to Syria (like Hillary's state department did), he's wants to openly shut down ISIS. And, Trump knows that it will take some military action to do so, but he also knows that ISIS is being propped up. They would not survive if you cut their supply lines. Trucks and planes are going to ISIS controlled areas filled with supplies. Fleets of Toyota trucks. Arms. The like. Whose letting them through the borders?

So, sure, is Trump a guy to be preferred? No. But, over Clinton? Absolutely. Not even an argument.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:09 am

Brian Peacock wrote:eRv,

This is a WARNING for personal attacks in this post where you called someone a 'fucking retard' and this post where you call someone a 'lying cunt'.

You know the deal by now; chill out to avoid an enforced holiday.

-- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --


Hermit,

This is a REMINDER for you to avoid personal attacks on other members, such as in this post where you posted "So, do fuck off, you mealy-mouthed fuckwit."
For the record, I did not report those posts. However, both of them "know the deal" and have known the deal for a long, long time, so with these kinds of things, I think warnings are nonsense. They knew full well that their insults were violations of the rules.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:22 am

And so were yours. Those in glass houses...
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:27 am

They really need to conclude this email investigation now. If they don't do it till after the convention, then whichever way it goes, one side will be claiming a conspiracy.
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:29 am

eRv wrote:Trump goes full retard with conspiracy theory about Obama and Orlando shooting.

I wonder if this is enough for Forty Two to be embarrassed of his support for Trump.
Not really - because my "support" is only by comparing him to the alternative, which is worse.

Plus, what he said wasn't all that strange. They build an article on this quote:
“He doesn’t get it or he gets it better than anybody understands,” Trump said. “It’s one or the other. And either one is unacceptable, number one, and number two, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this – this man has no clue.”
So, Obama doesn't "get it" which is business guy speak for a gut understanding of a given situation. Or, he "gets it" better than anyone understands. Not sure what that second part means, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Obama has a secret agenda.

Then the article quotes him:
“We’re led by a man who is not tough, not smart, or has something else in mind,” the presumptive Republican nominee said. “The something else in mind – people can’t believe it. They can’t believe he’s acting the way he acts and can’t even mention the words ‘radical Islamic terrorism’. There’s something going on.”
So, Obama is not tough or smart. So? That's Trump's opinion. It's either Obama isn't approaching this smartly/strongly, or he has some other agenda. This isn't some unprecedented implication. After 9/11/01, lefties were "implying" that George W. Bush either participated in the planning of 9/11/01, or had advance knowledge of it and purposefully declined to act, such that it would serve as a war pretext. And, then he had a secret deal to absolve the real guilty parties, the Saudis, shuttle them out of the country to safety in secret, and there was a big coverup. Popular movies were made about it and for years, "implications" were made alongside images of Bush walking hand-in-hand with the king of Saudi Arabia -- see! see! Bush's agenda in buddy buddy with King Abdullah! And, then, of course, there were the "implications" that were rampant about Donald Rumsfeld, who - gasp - was in a photo greeting Saddam Hussein in the 1980s, proving evil, nefarious doings and goings on.

The fact is -- Trump is correct - Obama won't even mention the words "radical Islamic terrorism" when there is radical islamic terrorism. It's ignored. Maybe his other agenda is political, always trying to push the motivating factors away from Islamic terrorism, and toward other motivators. In this case, they prefer to blame homophobia - it's not that he's a radical islamist who declared his allegiance to ISIS openly, he's a hating homophobe. In Libya, the embassy wasn't attacked in a coordinated, preplanned attack on the anniversary of 9/11/01 -- it was a spontaneous and passionate "uprising" against an unfortunate and offensive video, so we need to prosecute the maker of the film. The Fort Hood shooting wasn't Islamic terrorism -- it was an Iraq war veteran who unfortunately suffered from mental illness. That kind of thing. Trump is playing off the American feeling that Obama tries to make Islamic jihad out to be just no different than other crimes. That bugs people. They don't understand why.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:30 am

eRv wrote:They really need to conclude this email investigation now. If they don't do it till after the convention, then whichever way it goes, one side will be claiming a conspiracy.
Oh, I'm sure the Obama Administration's Justice Department, of which the FBI is a part, will ensure that justice is done, even if it means finding the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee guilty of a crime. Seems legit.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:33 am

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:Trump goes full retard with conspiracy theory about Obama and Orlando shooting.

I wonder if this is enough for Forty Two to be embarrassed of his support for Trump.
Not really - because my "support" is only by comparing him to the alternative, which is worse.
You know you don't have to support either, right?
“He doesn’t get it or he gets it better than anybody understands,” Trump said. “It’s one or the other. And either one is unacceptable, number one, and number two, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this – this man has no clue.”
Not sure what that second part means, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Obama has a secret agenda.
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:35 am

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:They really need to conclude this email investigation now. If they don't do it till after the convention, then whichever way it goes, one side will be claiming a conspiracy.
Oh, I'm sure the Obama Administration's Justice Department, of which the FBI is a part, will ensure that justice is done, even if it means finding the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee guilty of a crime. Seems legit.
So you reckon the bureaucracy and the FBI are corrupt?
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:56 am

eRv wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:Trump goes full retard with conspiracy theory about Obama and Orlando shooting.

I wonder if this is enough for Forty Two to be embarrassed of his support for Trump.
Not really - because my "support" is only by comparing him to the alternative, which is worse.
You know you don't have to support either, right?
Of course, but there is nothing wrong with preferring one crappy candidate over the other. If I only voted for candidates that I actually "support," I would have never voted for a viable candidate in a Presidential election.
eRv wrote:
“He doesn’t get it or he gets it better than anybody understands,” Trump said. “It’s one or the other. And either one is unacceptable, number one, and number two, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this – this man has no clue.”
Not sure what that second part means, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Obama has a secret agenda.
:fp: yes, black is white. Over and out.
Number 2 - calling on another gun ban -- I mean - this man has no clue - is not a secret agenda.

And, "he gets it better than anybody understands" reads as if he's referring to the disbelief/lack of understanding people have regarding his unwillingness to call Islamic terrorism Islamic terrorism. What do you think he means by either Obama doesn't get it, or he "gets it better than anybody understands?" You think he's implying that Obama secretly supports the terrorists? You don't see that as stretching the implication?

it's obvious that Trump said X, and the article extrapolated from that a far more damning implication that does not necessarily follow.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:00 pm

eRv wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:They really need to conclude this email investigation now. If they don't do it till after the convention, then whichever way it goes, one side will be claiming a conspiracy.
Oh, I'm sure the Obama Administration's Justice Department, of which the FBI is a part, will ensure that justice is done, even if it means finding the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee guilty of a crime. Seems legit.
So you reckon the bureaucracy and the FBI are corrupt?
It was declared so by Democrat supporters back in 2001-2008. Not sure why anyone who thought there was corruption then would think it went away. They may think the Democrat party is immune to corruption, I guess, or serve better angels.

I reckon that an administration that would use the IRS to attack opposing political groups wouldn't find it too unacceptable to exert a small bit of influence on folks who can exercise prosecutorial discretion in their jobs to see the evidence in a certain light.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

If Trump had brains he would be a lunatic. At present he is just stupid.
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:08 pm

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:Trump goes full retard with conspiracy theory about Obama and Orlando shooting.

I wonder if this is enough for Forty Two to be embarrassed of his support for Trump.
Not really - because my "support" is only by comparing him to the alternative, which is worse.
You know you don't have to support either, right?
Of course, but there is nothing wrong with preferring one crappy candidate over the other. If I only voted for candidates that I actually "support," I would have never voted for a viable candidate in a Presidential election.
eRv wrote:
“He doesn’t get it or he gets it better than anybody understands,” Trump said. “It’s one or the other. And either one is unacceptable, number one, and number two, calling on another gun ban, I mean, this – this man has no clue.”
Not sure what that second part means, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Obama has a secret agenda.
:fp: yes, black is white. Over and out.
Number 2 - calling on another gun ban -- I mean - this man has no clue - is not a secret agenda.

And, "he gets it better than anybody understands" reads as if he's referring to the disbelief/lack of understanding people have regarding his unwillingness to call Islamic terrorism Islamic terrorism. What do you think he means by either Obama doesn't get it, or he "gets it better than anybody understands?" You think he's implying that Obama secretly supports the terrorists? You don't see that as stretching the implication?
No. And neither do a number of news outlets and other people.
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:11 pm

Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
eRv wrote:They really need to conclude this email investigation now. If they don't do it till after the convention, then whichever way it goes, one side will be claiming a conspiracy.
Oh, I'm sure the Obama Administration's Justice Department, of which the FBI is a part, will ensure that justice is done, even if it means finding the Democratic Party's presumptive nominee guilty of a crime. Seems legit.
So you reckon the bureaucracy and the FBI are corrupt?
It was declared so by Democrat supporters back in 2001-2008. Not sure why anyone who thought there was corruption then would think it went away. They may think the Democrat party is immune to corruption, I guess, or serve better angels.

I reckon that an administration that would use the IRS to attack opposing political groups wouldn't find it too unacceptable to exert a small bit of influence on folks who can exercise prosecutorial discretion in their jobs to see the evidence in a certain light.
If you have no faith in the impartiality of your judicial and federal police services, then there's not much I can say. I suppose this is a forerunner of the conspiracy theory from the conservative side that will result if there is no action forthcoming from the investigation.
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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:13 pm

A number of news outlets.....like.... The Guardian :funny:

The once vaunted Guardian is now mostly a Progressive click-bait rag.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Election 2016 Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:15 pm

You do know "a number" is a number greater than one, right?
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