Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando

[pErvinalia]

Huh? That sounded like a post from Seth, but incoherent.

[JimC]

Yep, the old Stalin/Atheism canard, classic Seth...

Not your best post, Crumple...

[Hermit]

Also, if you insist on including those who were not born to the dead in the tally you'll need to include those numbers on both sides, in which case theists "win" hands down.

[Meekychuppet]

I see Obama and the media are calling this "terrorism". Is it, though? I know terrorism seems to have grown beyond being primarily about political motives, but surely you've got to have some plan, manifesto, or repeated ideological arguments about changing society to be a terrorist. The guy is obviously a homophobe, but so is probably half of America. Did he have any wider ideological plan to change society by slaughtering these people?

My take would be that he a dangerous mixture of unbalanced individual, homophobe and fundamentalist muslim...

If such a one wanted to massacre US infidels, a gay nightclub would tick all the boxes. Whatever he reportedly said about dedicating his spree to ISIS, I doubt he was instructed or even given weapons by anyone else. But ISIS would be rather happy about such lone-wolf attacks - very difficult for intelligence agencies or police to prevent, I would think...

I'm always intrigued to know what an 'unbalanced individual' is, and how you arrive at this conclusion.

[cronus]

My inner nihilist come out for a moment Jim C. I'm here to scuttle ships....I never said I had favourites in those regards.

[pErvinalia]

I see Obama and the media are calling this "terrorism". Is it, though? I know terrorism seems to have grown beyond being primarily about political motives, but surely you've got to have some plan, manifesto, or repeated ideological arguments about changing society to be a terrorist. The guy is obviously a homophobe, but so is probably half of America. Did he have any wider ideological plan to change society by slaughtering these people?

My take would be that he a dangerous mixture of unbalanced individual, homophobe and fundamentalist muslim...

If such a one wanted to massacre US infidels, a gay nightclub would tick all the boxes. Whatever he reportedly said about dedicating his spree to ISIS, I doubt he was instructed or even given weapons by anyone else. But ISIS would be rather happy about such lone-wolf attacks - very difficult for intelligence agencies or police to prevent, I would think...

I'm always intrigued to know what an 'unbalanced individual' is, and how you arrive at this conclusion.

His ex-wife described him as that, but 50% of ex-wives (including mine) probably describe their ex-husbands as that..

The "mentally ill" thing seems to be a bit of a point of contention these days when there is a mass shooting. I don't know exactly where to fall in that debate, but it's kind of circular reasoning given that if you mass murder a bunch of people you are probably pretty fucked in the head.

[Meekychuppet]

I see Obama and the media are calling this "terrorism". Is it, though? I know terrorism seems to have grown beyond being primarily about political motives, but surely you've got to have some plan, manifesto, or repeated ideological arguments about changing society to be a terrorist. The guy is obviously a homophobe, but so is probably half of America. Did he have any wider ideological plan to change society by slaughtering these people?

My take would be that he a dangerous mixture of unbalanced individual, homophobe and fundamentalist muslim...

If such a one wanted to massacre US infidels, a gay nightclub would tick all the boxes. Whatever he reportedly said about dedicating his spree to ISIS, I doubt he was instructed or even given weapons by anyone else. But ISIS would be rather happy about such lone-wolf attacks - very difficult for intelligence agencies or police to prevent, I would think...

I'm always intrigued to know what an 'unbalanced individual' is, and how you arrive at this conclusion.

His ex-wife described him as that, but 50% of ex-wives (including mine) probably describe their ex-husbands as that..

The "mentally ill" thing seems to be a bit of a point of contention these days when there is a mass shooting. I don't know exactly where to fall in that debate, but it's kind of circular reasoning given that if you mass murder a bunch of people you are probably pretty fucked in the head.

Is 'fucked in the head' your clinical opinion? Is that a disease I can find us DSM-V? Or are we just kicking the mentally ill around again?

[pErvinalia]

Ok, genius, he was sane. Mass murder involves healthy mental processes.

[Meekychuppet]

Ok, genius, he was sane. Mass murder involves healthy mental processes.

How do you know it doesn't?

[pErvinalia]

Because the definition of mental illness is an inability to function in normal society. I'd say murdering 50 of your fellow citizens is pretty clear proof that you can't function in normal society.

[cronus]

He was mentally able to hold and aim a weapon, hold down a security post and beat his wife out of his life....lots of people have mental illness and don't do this mass murder stuff....the chief difference is they don't have the pillars(imams) of their community suggesting it is a good idea I guess?

[pErvinalia]

This is just another example of the inability of conservatives to think outside of false dichotomies. If a killer is mentally ill, it has to mean that everyone else with mental illness must be a mass murderer. That's retarded thinking. It's eminently reasonable to make a distinction between different types of mental illness. Just because a fruitcake kills 50 people doesn't mean everyone with depression or anxiety are in line to go on a shooting spree.

[Exi5tentialist]

He was mentally able to hold and aim a weapon, hold down a security post and beat his wife out of his life....lots of people have mental illness and don't do this mass murder stuff....the chief difference is they don't have the pillars(imams) of their community suggesting it is a good idea I guess?

Pillars or imams? You don't seem to know the difference. These murders were homophobic. Any attempt to widen the backlash to "Islam" fuels islamophobic racism and makes all Muslims, including LGBT Muslims, a target for more hatred and attacks.

We know that religion is all guff. You do not fight guff with guff.

[cronus]

I do know mentally ill people are more susceptible to suggestion and external peer pressures than mentally healthy people for the most part. Their cognitive reserve is depleted by illness so they rely on other people to guide them through the impenetrable maze of life...you can see where this can easily go wrong in a Islamic context? I recall reading that many suicide bombers in the Middle East come from the more vulnerable 'learning disabled' members of the community who are deliberately sought out and targeted by their handlers...much like JW's the radicalisers do the love bombing trick and then strap on the semtex vest all for free...because they are evil.

[Exi5tentialist]

This is just another example of the inability of conservatives to think outside of false dichotomies. If a killer is mentally ill, it has to mean that everyone else with mental illness must be a mass murderer. That's retarded thinking. It's eminently reasonable to make a distinction between different types of mental illness. Just because a fruitcake kills 50 people doesn't mean everyone with depression or anxiety are in line to go on a shooting spree.

A first step in that battle is to persuade people to stop using disparaging terms about mental illness and learning disability. Asshole language doesn't promote enlightened attitudes.