Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando

[devogue]

they won't win, we'll go on living

Yes, but if I lived in America I would avoid malls, cinemas, airports, stadia, concert halls, anywhere where lots of people congregate with low security in a country bristling with high powered weapons and fucking nutters.

So the terrrrrrists have won. Oh well.

[devogue]

I'm so fucking angry I'm shaking. This is my home. These fuckwad religious asshole shitstain motherfuckers are attacking my home.

Your anger is entirely understandable but it looks like a mirror reflection of people affronted by "The Great Satan" that is America - they get fucking angry at American foreign policy, by what they see as attacks on their way of life. The same goes for Christians in the US who now see the state as a secular enemy. Anger is a terrible thing, righteous anger is a terribly dangerous thing.

[Collector1337]

they can get machine guns for peanuts.

OUTRIGHT FALSE HOOD!

You have absolutely no idea what you are fucking talking about. It's totally pathetic.

[JimC]

they can get machine guns for peanuts.

OUTRIGHT FALSE HOOD!

You have absolutely no idea what you are fucking talking about. It's totally pathetic.

Sure, he shouldn't have used the word machine gun. Presumably fully automatic weapons are difficult (but not impossible) to get in the US. Gang members seem to be able to obtain Uzis without too much trouble, though.

However, it is not hard for a nut-job to obtain a semi-automatic rifle with a high capacity magazine, which is all it takes, really...

[cronus]

Islam needs factoring in - consider millions upon millions of homophobic Xians far out numbering Muslims and many armed to their teeth in a redneck style....and the big massacre when it comes is from Islamic extremism. My contention is that although the hate literature in the Bible and the Koran are both equally gross the brakes on utilising that hate in the form Jesus (the pacifist version who tells Peter to put down his sword, who throws the first stone etc....) is absent in Islam so the hate has no brake in that religion.

[Tero]

If the gays all just carried little cute pistols while dancing, this would never happen.

[JimC]

Islam needs factoring in - consider millions upon millions of homophobic Xians far out numbering Muslims and many armed to their teeth in a redneck style....and the big massacre when it comes is from Islamic extremism. My contention is that although the hate literature in the Bible and the Koran are both equally gross the brakes on utilising that hate in the form Jesus (the pacifist version who tells Peter to put down his sword, who throws the first stone etc....) is absent in Islam so the hate has no brake in that religion.

The brakes weren't there in christianity's earlier times. Their existence today, via selective interpretation of the bible, owes more to the church having its teeth pulled by the rising tide of secularism than it does to "gentle jesus meek and mild"...

[Svartalf]

Indeed, as I was saying on another forum, the only reason christians are not executing sodomites is that they no longer have the temporal power to do so...
and I bet pope benny would have gladly done it had he been able, mabe even JPII

[Collector1337]

Gang members seem to be able to obtain Uzis without too much trouble, though.

Yeah, all the gun laws totally keep them from getting whatever they want.

high capacity magazine

Define "high capacity" magazine.

[pErvinalia]

Nothing to do with religion. He saw two blokes having a snog and it got him riled in only the way a Muslim extremist knows how. That's the latest...

[pErvinalia]

Only when people realise that conscious acts cannot arise from unconscious books

You are changing your story again. This is what you started with, then you changed to say that some text could influence people, and now you are back to saying that no text can influence people. You do realise you make basically no sense, right?

[pErvinalia]

I see Obama and the media are calling this "terrorism". Is it, though? I know terrorism seems to have grown beyond being primarily about political motives, but surely you've got to have some plan, manifesto, or repeated ideological arguments about changing society to be a terrorist. The guy is obviously a homophobe, but so is probably half of America. Did he have any wider ideological plan to change society by slaughtering these people?

[JimC]

Gang members seem to be able to obtain Uzis without too much trouble, though.

Yeah, all the gun laws totally keep them from getting whatever they want.

high capacity magazine

Define "high capacity" magazine.

20 or more rounds, I suppose...

That's what the gunman must have had (plus spare magazines) to kill so many, so quickly...

Now, I know it's pointless to talk about most forms of gun restriction in the US, the addiction is too strong, but perhaps, just maybe, you could try a little harder to stop nut-jobs having such easy access to them...

[JimC]

I see Obama and the media are calling this "terrorism". Is it, though? I know terrorism seems to have grown beyond being primarily about political motives, but surely you've got to have some plan, manifesto, or repeated ideological arguments about changing society to be a terrorist. The guy is obviously a homophobe, but so is probably half of America. Did he have any wider ideological plan to change society by slaughtering these people?

My take would be that he a dangerous mixture of unbalanced individual, homophobe and fundamentalist muslim...

If such a one wanted to massacre US infidels, a gay nightclub would tick all the boxes. Whatever he reportedly said about dedicating his spree to ISIS, I doubt he was instructed or even given weapons by anyone else. But ISIS would be rather happy about such lone-wolf attacks - very difficult for intelligence agencies or police to prevent, I would think...

[cronus]

The rise of secularism came after Christianity softened up. Many of the early 'humanists' in the the sense of pushing for human rights were devout Christians, unitarians and non-conformists etc but Christian. I'm afraid to say the entire atheist project conjoined with communism and slaughtered a 1000 million (including those who were not born to the dead) whilst the most progressive social strides where made in the last century also....there's probably no God, but neither is there a moral secular vanguard....in the history books.