Universal Basic Income thread

[Svartalf]

You need personnel to oversee the computers in case of glitch (and as a guy who worked in taxland, I know glitches keep happening). and bureaucrats to make sure everybody is properly registered with the right bank account so everybody does receive the income...

[piscator]

I wonder if it would be better if everyone should get the minimum basic income, and not lose it just because you start earning money.

That is part of the definition. You get it always, independent of what you earn additionally.

Inflation.

[Scot Dutchy]

You need personnel to oversee the computers in case of glitch (and as a guy who worked in taxland, I know glitches keep happening). and bureaucrats to make sure everybody is properly registered with the right bank account so everybody does receive the income...

You would still need care workers to look after the old and infirm. Families with problems. Chucking money around will not solve everything but is the way to go. As there is less and less work attitudes must change. Many people here work part time out of choice and in some cases two people work the same job giving flexible time off. All these ideas will be needed in the future. The 40 hour week is a dodo and does not belong to this time.

[JimC]

I am wary of the idea, in that it has the potential to create generations content to do sweet fuck all...

Oh shit, I'm having a Sethian moment...

[piscator]

Well, it's not pretty to watch... (Aimless people, not you Jim)
Given unlimited degrees of freedom, most of us will eat ourselves to death watching Jerry Springer.

[JimC]

I agree that I am incredibly pretty to watch...

[Svartalf]

I am wary of the idea, in that it has the potential to create generations content to do sweet fuck all...

Oh shit, I'm having a Sethian moment...

I don't believe it... even assumint this minimum income is actually enough to live on, which, with inflation, I'm not sure of, people always want more, so they'd take jobs and do stuff and whatnot.

[Scot Dutchy]

I am wary of the idea, in that it has the potential to create generations content to do sweet fuck all...

Oh shit, I'm having a Sethian moment...

Jim it is the case of attitude. The work ethic which here is extremely strong is slowly changing. Spare time to do other things such as study or looking after children is becoming more important than earning pots of money and being a work slave. Even when I was working I was one of the very few that worked full time. We had two women engineers doing one job. Even one worked only two mornings a week. With good planning everything is possible. A universal basic income is important to stimulate this trend. Remember the happier the work force the more efficient it is. We are the third happiest country in the world and we have the happiest kids. So something must be working.

[pErvinalia]

You don't get it do you? Social services would have to expand to distribute the minimum income to the whole population,

What? No it wouldn't. If every single person gets it, then there is no need for a bureaucracy to manage who gets it and who doesn't. All you need is a list of the living members of society. That bureaucracy already exists, so to say the bureaucracy would expand makes absolutely no sense.

[Svartalf]

No there'ss need for a bureaucracy to make sure everybody gets it like they must. manage the list and make sure it's up to date at all times. and I'm not sure that the currend administration that would have to do that would be big enough for the task.

[pErvinalia]

You have a strange idea of what a difficult versus an easy task is. Investigating and enforcing restrictions on welfare, and prosecuting fraud, is a difficult task. Pressing a button and simultaneously paying everyone the same amount of money is an easy task. One clearly requires more people to achieve than the other.

[Scot Dutchy]

You have a strange idea of what a difficult versus an easy task is. Investigating and enforcing restrictions on welfare, and prosecuting fraud, is a difficult task. Pressing a button and simultaneously paying everyone the same amount of money is an easy task. One clearly requires more people to achieve than the other.

You dont think corruption will happen? People with more than one identity? That is one of the big problems with UBI; corruption.

[pErvinalia]

Sure, but no more than currently applies.

[Scot Dutchy]

Sure, but no more than currently applies.

I think UBI would greatly be more subjected to corruption. The temptation would to great for many to withstand. Anyway there would be plenty of people around to do the work and just give a little top up on the UBI and everyone is happy.

[laklak]

That's more like what I was thinking. There's a vast bureaucracy that determines welfare eligibility and the amounts provided. Food stamps, rent assistance, etc. Those people would be unnecessary. You could drastically cut their numbers by just giving everyone the same amount. If everyone had a living income the problem of homelessness would disappear, since spending one's stipend on dope instead of housing would be a personal decision and we could ignore the bums sleeping in the streets. There goes all those homeless programs and charities. If everyone had a basic living income then everyone could (theoretically) afford health insurance, so there's a drastic decrease in the enormous health care bureaucracy. if you spend your money on dope rather than health insurance and housing then you die of disease and exposure and the rest of us can safely ignore you. Since criminals are basically a lazy bunch, petty crime would decrease. Why mug someone when you've got dosh in the bank? Couple this with drug decriminalization and Judge Dredd style law enforcement and we save a shitload on prison costs.

"Personal Responsibility" becomes the watchword of the day. You've got the money to take care of yourself, if you don't it's your problem. No more whining about how unfair the world is, just suck it up, slacker. Of course we'd need to completely revamp the taxation system, since this is going to cost a lot of money, probably more than we'd save, so we take the opportunity to streamline and simplify the tax system. The new IRS 1040 form becomes "How much did you make? Send us 20%". This puts a whole bunch of parasitic tax attorneys, IRS agents, tax preparation people et. al. out of business.

The majority of the population become mindless drones, sucking down cheap beer and dope and watching reality TV. Those of us with a bit of ambition and drive would succeed, as has always been the case.

Just put me in charge, I'll sort it out.