Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predictions

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Forty Two
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Re: Re:

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 11:42 am

piscator wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
piscator wrote:
Maybe while he's at it he'll transparently release his tax returns, like Hillary?
Tax returns? Why?

To see what he's trying to hide. To catch a glimpse of the depth and breadth of his chicanery. To cost him the Election when he doesn't.

We already know he's a liar. Why do you want that hidden?
I don't care about them, or any other candidate's tax returns. If, indeed, there was "chicanery," the IRS would audit him. It's not like the current IRS couldn't easily select him for random screening, and right now we know who the party in power is.

We know the guy is rich. We know the guy wants to pay as little in tax as he can, within the law. If he did so, then good for him.

He may be "a liar," but certainly not moreso than Hillary Clinton. Don't pretend to be against liars. You're all in favor of liars, as long as you like what you think their political views are.

The tax return thing is a big nothing, anyway. Trump has been planning a presidential run for many years. Do you honestly think he did not have a team of tax lawyers and accountants working on his tax return? His "it's none of your business" response is a marketing ploy. It sells well in middle-America, who still think that a person's salary and tax information are none of anybody's business, and sticking a middle finger in the face of leftists trying to score points is also fairly popular among middle-America. They know that the media and the left didn't care what records Obama deigned to release. So, they know that the outraged demand for immediate release of tax returns now is just political....

piscator wrote:
Were you interested in the transparency of Obama releasing his college and law school records? Still haven't seen those, for some reason....

But we did see his taxes. Even Mittens finally released a few years of taxes, in September or October, but by then it was too late. The damage to his integrity was already done.

Hillary has released her taxes from the last 7 years. Why won't Trump?
Who cares? Tax returns have never contained anything damning about a candidate.

Trump is not releasing his tax returns because he wants there to be furor about it. Watch.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Trump once revealed his income tax returns. They showed

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 11:54 am

piscator wrote:...Didn't Pay A Cent
The last time information from Donald Trump’s income-tax returns was made public, the bottom line was striking: He had paid the federal government $0 in income taxes.

The disclosure, in a 1981 report by New Jersey gambling regulators, revealed that the wealthy Manhattan investor had for at least two years in the late 1970s taken advantage of a tax-code provision popular with developers that allowed him to report negative income.
Good. He paid $0 in taxes in the 1970s (40 years ago) under a provision of the tax code that allowed him to lawfully do so. Would you elect a person to the Presidency who was too stupid to do so?

Today, as the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Trump regularly denounces corporate executives for using loopholes and “false deductions” to “get away with murder” when it comes to avoiding taxes.
"false deductions" = tax EVASION, not "avoidance." Tax "avoidance" is perfectly legal. Tax evasion is illegal. Taking a false deduction is fraud.

“They make a fortune. They pay no tax,” Trump said last year on CBS. “It’s ridiculous, okay?”

...
Indeed. He correctly identifies unfairness in the tax code. If the tax code were written so you would pay no tax, wouldn't you pay no tax? I certainly would. I could still identify the code as being unfair. The question is, why didn't the party in power for the last 7 1/2 years do anything about it? Either Trump is wrong, and it's not unfair, or Trump is right and it is unfair and in 7 1/2 years the Obama administration didn't bother changing the Internal Revenue Code or the Revenue Regulations.

Trump’s personal taxes are a mystery. He has refused to release any recent returns, meaning the public cannot see how much money he makes, how much he gives to charity and how aggressively he uses deductions, shelters and other tactics to shrink his tax bill.
Not a big deal. Trump runs a number of business enterprises. His personal tax returns probably don't illustrate a billionaire, because C Corporations owned by Trump file their own tax returns, and Trump's individual tax return will only reflect income drawn from those enterprises.

His charitable giving would not generally be reflected in his individual tax return, because he sets up independent charitable foundations. "Aggressive" deductions? Either an expense is deductible or it isn't. If he lied, he'd be hit with an IRS audit. And, everyone expects him to take as many deductions as possible. There is nothing wrong with doing so. And, tax shelters won't be reflected on his individual tax return. That's why it's a shelter (like an off-shore trust).

Trump, who said last week on ABC that his tax rate is “none of your business,” would be the first major-party nominee in 40 years to not release his returns.

In an interview this week, Trump said that he has paid “substantial” taxes but declined to provide specifics.

He reiterated that he fights “very hard to pay as little tax as possible.”

“One of the reasons is because the government takes your money and wastes it in the Middle East and all over the place,” he said.

...

Trump’s contradictory approaches have been apparent for years.
Contradictory? There was nothing contradictory about the above.

He criticized 2012 Republican nominee Mitt Romney for delaying the release of his returns. Romney, a former private-equity executive, had come under fire for paying a low tax rate because most of his income came from investments.

“It’s a great thing when you can show that you’ve been successful and that you’ve made a lot of money,” Trump said at the time.

Romney eventually released returns showing that, for his 2011 taxes, he chose not to take certain deductions, bringing his tax rate more in line with that of average Americans.

Trump, early in his campaign, seemed ready to give voters a look at his tax filings.

In January, he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he was ready to disclose his “very big . . . very beautiful” returns.

But as his campaign gained momentum, Trump backed away from his declaration. He first claimed that ongoing audits by the Internal Revenue Service prevent disclosure.

Then last week, he told the Associated Press that voters are not interested in seeing his tax filings and that “there’s nothing to learn from them.”

[Fact Checker: Trump’s false claim that ‘there’s nothing to learn’ from his tax returns]

Trump’s new position has unnerved some tax experts, who see value in the tradition of transparency by presidential contenders.

“At some point, he could be the tax collector in chief. He’d supervise the IRS, making sure all of us live up to our own tax responsibilities,” said Joe Thorndike, a director at Tax Analysts, a nonpartisan, nonprofit group that specializes in tax policy. “People deserve to know . . . how a person like that plays the game.”

Trump’s stance has become an issue in the campaign.

Romney said on Facebook last week that refusing to release tax returns should be “disqualifying” for any nominee and speculated that Trump’s returns could be hiding a “bombshell of unusual size.” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) weighed in this week, telling reporters that Trump will “have to make that decision himself” but that presidential candidates’ releasing their returns has “certainly been the pattern for quite some time.”

[Mitt Romney believes ‘there’s a bombshell in Donald Trump’s taxes’]

Trump’s likely Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, who has disclosed decades of tax returns, released a 60-second ad last week asking, “What’s Donald Trump hiding?”

“You’ve got to ask yourself: ‘Why doesn’t he want to release it?’ ” Clinton said at a New Jersey rally last week. “Yeah, well, we’re gonna find out.”

...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html[/quote]

Yep. And, Trump, not being an idiot, has known since before he started running for President that the tax return issue would be a question asked, and that controversy would be created by a delay in releasing them. Watch what happens when he releases them.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by piscator » Mon May 23, 2016 5:58 pm

I hope it doesn't put him out of the race!

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 6:08 pm

Well, since nobody cares, and Hillary has far bigger "disclosure" issues than her 1040 form, that's highly doubtful. But, rest assured, the return will be disclosed. Trump already said he would release them when the IRS is done auditing them. He has said so openly. I don't blame him, and I don't think anyone blames him, for wanting to wait until the audit is done.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by piscator » Mon May 23, 2016 6:37 pm

Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 7:07 pm

piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Well, that's not really indicated. The audit rate among the top income earners is very, very high, especially when the returns are complex. Plenty of people are audited, and the IRS issues no action letters, indicating that they aren't taking any action relative to the return.

Tax returns are not crimes, and even if the IRS claims that something needs to be amended, it's neither a crime nor evidence of wrongdoing. The tax code, regulations, and revenue procedures in the US are so lengthy, and so complex, that reasonable minds often differ on interpretation and application.

It's a big, red herring, actually. It's know-nothing reporters and pundits that think it means something. When was the last time any candidate ever released a tax return and had it mean something? How about, oh, never? That's because there is not much in the return to glean, and certainly no way to tell if something was proper or improper. They never release the back-up (the proof of what they're typing into the returns). So, nothing can be verified. What is going to be done? Some dopey journalist is going to point to a big deduction and say "Wow! He deducting $100,000 for such and such! That sounds like a lot!" And, his opposition is going to go "ooooooooo! See! He is taking all these deductions, and paying less in taxes!" and Trump is going to say "so? That's what the tax code said I could do? If it was a problem, why did the Obama Administration allow the deduction?" And, the Democrats are going to say Trump is paying too little in taxes, and the Republicans are going to say it's what the tax code said, and that's going to be the end of it.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Tyrannical » Mon May 23, 2016 7:19 pm

piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Ten years of audits sounds politically motivated since I don't see trump charged for tax evasion.
And apparently the mob controlled all the fresh cement in NYC.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by piscator » Mon May 23, 2016 7:43 pm

Forty Two wrote:
piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Well, that's not really indicated.
Yes it is.



The audit rate among the top income earners is very, very high, especially when the returns are complex. Plenty of people are audited, and the IRS issues no action letters, indicating that they aren't taking any action relative to the return.

But you ain't voting for one of them, are you? You're supporting Trump here, right?


That's what I like about you Warren: You really weren't trying to insult anyone's intelligence with that response - you actually felt it was a good one. :)

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 7:50 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Ten years of audits sounds politically motivated since I don't see trump charged for tax evasion.
And apparently the mob controlled all the fresh cement in NYC.
Well, absolutely -- until the Giuliani prosecutions, the mob took a 4% tax on every construction project in New York City. They controlled the unions, including the cement unions. If they didn't get paid, they could simply stop the jobs.

This is not conspiracy theory stuff -- it's well known.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by piscator » Mon May 23, 2016 7:51 pm

Tyrannical wrote:Ten years of audits sounds politically motivated since I don't see trump charged for tax evasion.
So you're saying both Bush and Obama felt the same way about it? That it was a bipartisan political harassment of poor Donald?


And apparently the mob controlled all the fresh cement in NYC.
Apparently the Mob controls Trump too.

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Svartalf » Mon May 23, 2016 7:54 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Ten years of audits sounds politically motivated since I don't see trump charged for tax evasion.
And apparently the mob controlled all the fresh cement in NYC.
politically motivated? why? Trump just recently grew political aspirations, and he used to be tha pal of the dems
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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Forty Two » Mon May 23, 2016 8:07 pm

piscator wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
piscator wrote:Tyranical said Trump has been audited the last 10 years, something that indicates lots of problems with Trump's accounting.


Maybe all the Mob influence?
Well, that's not really indicated.
Yes it is.
I wasn't referring to the mob. I was referring to the audits as an indication of problems with Trump's accounting.

But, having read that entire article, looking for something other than innuendo, if that's all they have on Trump, he's safe.

Oh, my god! He vouched for a lawyer he knew, and he did business with a guy who ran his helicopter company who was indicted for something completely unrelated to Trump! Whoa!!!! Trump must be a real crook, eh!? Trump told the attorney general that he would withdraw his casino bid if the background investigation took over six months????? What the???? How dare he? How DARE he tell the AG what he would do if the process took longer than Trump was comfortable with? Monster.

Trump had some Cadillac limosines custom modified by Dillinger Coach Works in Atlantic City -- and that company was run by guys with unsavory criminal records! What???? When you hire a company to modify a vehicle, man, you're supposed to run checks on the owners (who you have no real way of known are the owners, since companies can keep their shareholder records confidential), but man if a convicted felon runs a body shop, and you use it, damn! Forget about running for President...

Why did Trump repeatedly do business with mob controlled unions, the article asks -- well, fucking duh -- all the god-damn Jersey and New York construction unions were mob controlled. if you wanted to build a building, you had to have the unions on board. What the fuck? Is the article serious?

That's about the most trumped up article I've read about a candidate.... just guilt by association and innuendo. Not a single suggestion that Trump broke a law or committed a crime, or even an impropriety, of any kind (save maybe the affair with Marla Maples, that's kind of improper).
piscator wrote:
The audit rate among the top income earners is very, very high, especially when the returns are complex. Plenty of people are audited, and the IRS issues no action letters, indicating that they aren't taking any action relative to the return.

But you ain't voting for one of them, are you? You're supporting Trump here, right?


That's what I like about you Warren: You really weren't trying to insult anyone's intelligence with that response - you actually felt it was a good one. :)
Sure, and the fact remains that being audited is NOT an indication that a person is a tax cheat.

Trump has been in business for decades. Has there been an indictment? Tax evasion is a crime, and when they are dealing with big fish, like Trump, they'll go after him.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by laklak » Mon May 23, 2016 8:29 pm

If there was anything criminal in Trump's taxes they'd already have him in cuffs. The fact that they don't means 1) he's clean enough or 2) he's got enough dirt on everybody else and they know he'll release it. The world these people live in isn't a pretty one, I'd wager.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by piscator » Mon May 23, 2016 8:39 pm

laklak wrote:If there was anything criminal in Trump's taxes they'd already have him in cuffs.

If that's your logic, why aren't you voting for HRC?

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Re: Democrat Primaries/Caucuses Discussions, Jokes, Predicti

Post by Svartalf » Mon May 23, 2016 8:58 pm

because she's a lying hag of a pro politician and she has no self respect, so she can't have any for the nastion
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