I have no objection to the detection of those who scam social benefits, but if a "lot of true disabled" were disadvantaged by the test, it must have been very poorly designed and/or implemented, to say the least...DaveDodo007 wrote:
...This outraged a lot of tax payers so the tories devised test to see who were really disabled and those that were conning the system. A lot of true disabled were obviously caught in the crossfire, not their fault of course but the tories wanted to know who was truly disabled and who were scamming the system....
The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
So when science and technology helps women not be slaves to biology, aka contraception, abortion etc we should all celebrate whilst at the same time expect men to continue to be slaves to antiquated systems. That seems to be a rather sexist viewpoint.Brian Peacock wrote:Then just accept the natural way of things and stop belly-aching about how unfair evolution has been to you.DaveDodo007 wrote:As soon as two sexes evolved on this planet then gynocracy existed, it wouldn't have been an evolutionary advantage otherwise. Homo sapien sapiens had fuck all to do with it let alone MRAs.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
They were inconvenience for a very short time but when it was established that they were truly disabled they suffered no cut in their benefits at all.JimC wrote:I have no objection to the detection of those who scam social benefits, but if a "lot of true disabled" were disadvantaged by the test, it must have been very poorly designed and/or implemented, to say the least...DaveDodo007 wrote:
...This outraged a lot of tax payers so the tories devised test to see who were really disabled and those that were conning the system. A lot of true disabled were obviously caught in the crossfire, not their fault of course but the tories wanted to know who was truly disabled and who were scamming the system....
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan

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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
I love how ideologues think they are individuals.Collector1337 wrote:You mean you outsource it to the State, political correctness, and other Cultural Marxist ideology.Brian Peacock wrote:Probably because we think for ourselves and don't out-source our moral reasoning to others.Collector1337 wrote:...
The real question is, why does there seem to be a correlation between being atheist and a leftist? Why is there not a proportional amount of conservative atheists?
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
I, of course are a mere worker termite in the vast Marxist paradise that is the Melbourne termite mound...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
That was the point as it was a system wide check, no true disabled person lost their benefits and the lazy frauds were outed as it should be.Brian Peacock wrote:So you swallowed the Tory bollocks. Yes there were lots of outraged articles about this or that person was getting disability and/or sickness benefits when perhaps they shouldn't but the DWP's own statistics had the fraudulent claim rate for these benefits in 2010-11 at less than 0.5%. So you see, the argument for making benefits even harder to get to deter fraud is complete bunk. Every 'true' disabled person has been targeted, not merely caught in the cross-fire.
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
Except that isn't true. It was a 'system wide' redefinition of disability according to whether you passed a work capability assessment administered by a company that were financially incentivised to disqualify people. Reinstatement rates on appeal run at over 60%, over 3000 people in two years declared fit for work died within 6 weeks of having their claim turned down, coroners have declared both the assessment processes and refusals as contributing to suicides, people in comas have been sanctioned for not attending assessments, people have been sanctioned when they didn't make it to interviews in inaccessible centers even when they attended, quadriplegics have been declared fit for work and had their disability living allowance removed and sanctioned for not attending mandatory work programs, the supreme court have ruled that disabled people are unduly discriminated against with regards to the bedroom tax, and social care services and provision has been withdrawn from many as a result of a squeeze on local authority funding and a reclassification of such spending as discretionary for local authorities. And besides, you're relying on a 'no true disabled person' fallacy there as well..
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
Quacks just like an MRA againDaveDodo007 wrote:As soon as two sexes evolved on this planet then gynocracy existed...Hermit wrote:Whatevs. "We live in a gynocracy and nobody gives a fuck about men" is MRAish enough, and that's what you wrote.
and again.DaveDodo007 wrote:So when science and technology helps women not be slaves to biology, aka contraception, abortion etc we should all celebrate whilst at the same time expect men to continue to be slaves to antiquated systems.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
When 50% of the population is freed from certain burdens, then why wouldn't we celebrate? 

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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
Disability benefit was and still is a cheat's ticket to easy money.
Also it was a good thing for some genuinely disabled people.
Once the word got around, that once you were on it, the money kept coming, and you didn't have to look for work, the cheats piled onto it as well as the genuine claimants.
I know that for a fact, because I personally know some of them. Nice people, but they like easy money.
Depression was the best one to use. If you fake a bad back, or angina or something, they can video you playing football while supposed to be disabled. But depression is invisible, and can't really be proved or disproved.
That's the problem with benefits. I don't blame the governments for cracking down. And I don't blame the people for going after easy money. And I feel sorry for the genuine claimants who have their life made harder, by the cheats.
That's life. It's an unsolvable problem. How do you weed out the cheats from the genuine needy, for a small fee? Nobody has found an answer to that.
So, you either pay a load of cheats, to ensure that genuine people get what they deserve, or you make life hard for genuine claimants, to make it more difficult to cheat.
Not a pleasant choice, whichever way you turn. That's the shit part of human nature.
What I would do would be to have such a drastic deterrent regime against cheating, that very few people would risk it. Have really draconian sentences for people who make false claims.
And make them very very public. That might work.
But, that has it's own problems too. You will get miscarriages of justice, and you will be putting fear into genuine people's minds.
Really, there is no answer to cheating. You just favour one approach or another. But neither is a fix.
Also it was a good thing for some genuinely disabled people.
Once the word got around, that once you were on it, the money kept coming, and you didn't have to look for work, the cheats piled onto it as well as the genuine claimants.
I know that for a fact, because I personally know some of them. Nice people, but they like easy money.
Depression was the best one to use. If you fake a bad back, or angina or something, they can video you playing football while supposed to be disabled. But depression is invisible, and can't really be proved or disproved.
That's the problem with benefits. I don't blame the governments for cracking down. And I don't blame the people for going after easy money. And I feel sorry for the genuine claimants who have their life made harder, by the cheats.
That's life. It's an unsolvable problem. How do you weed out the cheats from the genuine needy, for a small fee? Nobody has found an answer to that.
So, you either pay a load of cheats, to ensure that genuine people get what they deserve, or you make life hard for genuine claimants, to make it more difficult to cheat.
Not a pleasant choice, whichever way you turn. That's the shit part of human nature.
What I would do would be to have such a drastic deterrent regime against cheating, that very few people would risk it. Have really draconian sentences for people who make false claims.
And make them very very public. That might work.
But, that has it's own problems too. You will get miscarriages of justice, and you will be putting fear into genuine people's minds.
Really, there is no answer to cheating. You just favour one approach or another. But neither is a fix.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
The best estimate for the amount of moneys lost due to welfare fraud is £1.3bn a year out of a total of its £164bn welfare payments. The government employs 3700 people to fight welfare fraud, which of course adds to the cost of said fraud.mistermack wrote:Disability benefit was and still is a cheat's ticket to easy money.
Also it was a good thing for some genuinely disabled people.
Once the word got around, that once you were on it, the money kept coming, and you didn't have to look for work, the cheats piled onto it
In comparison, the government estimates that the gap between tax owed and tax paid is £34bn a year. 700 of its employees are fighting tax fraud.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
That's different, though. Because..
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
Who says that's the best estimate? The same people who are responsible for preventing the fraud?Hermit wrote:The best estimate for the amount of moneys lost due to welfare fraud is £1.3bn a year out of a total of its £164bn welfare payments.
"Oh look what a good job we are doing ! "

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Re: The Dirt on Sadiq Khan
You clearly know more about the number of welfare cheats than they do. Have you ever considered running for the Boss of Everything?
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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