Bernie vs Trump presidential debate......

[pErvinalia]

India?

[Forty Two]

Yeah right, last time I heard it's Syrians trying to go to Sweden, not the reverse.

Sure, but Sweden isn't socialist. It's a capitalist economy with a vibrant private sector and free market economy. Having a social safety net doesn't make one "socialist."

I'd be willing to bet DaveDodo thinks it's socialist.

Well, then it must be socialist?

https://mises.org/library/how-modern-sw ... et-history

It is interesting that progressives like Sanders can look at a rich country like Sweden and automatically conclude that the nation’s high living standards do not result from a laissez-faire past, low levels of national debt, monetary independence, no centrally mandated minimum wage, strong legal protection of property rights, a level-headed central bank, low corporate tax rates, or even Sweden’s gradual move toward more privatization in healthcare, social security, and education. Rather, progressives naturally assume that Sweden’s high living standards are a product of their high taxes and nationalized industries.

Written by a Swedish historian -

Sweden often gets held up as an example of how socialism can work better than markets. But, as Norberg shows, Sweden’s history in fact points to the opposite conclusion

. http://www.libertarianism.org/publicati ... weden-rich

Basically, Sweden is a free market capitalism success story that tried to de-liberalize into socialist economic policies, which significantly stifled growth, and which gradually began re-liberalizing its market economy.

[Forty Two]

India?

From the preamble of the Indian Constitution - "We, the people of India, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic. . . ." India's election law, the Representation of the People Act, requires every political party to aver its commitment to socialism, and political parties that attempt to register in India are denied if they don't put a commitment to socialism in their party platform.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah right, last time I heard it's Syrians trying to go to Sweden, not the reverse.

Sure, but Sweden isn't socialist. It's a capitalist economy with a vibrant private sector and free market economy. Having a social safety net doesn't make one "socialist."

I'd be willing to bet DaveDodo thinks it's socialist.

Well, then it must be socialist?

That's not the point. The point is it makes Svarty's retort to DaveDodo valid.

https://mises.org/library/how-modern-sw ... et-history

It is interesting that progressives like Sanders can look at a rich country like Sweden and automatically conclude that the nation’s high living standards do not result from a laissez-faire past, low levels of national debt, monetary independence, no centrally mandated minimum wage, strong legal protection of property rights, a level-headed central bank, low corporate tax rates, or even Sweden’s gradual move toward more privatization in healthcare, social security, and education. Rather, progressives naturally assume that Sweden’s high living standards are a product of their high taxes and nationalized industries.

Well that's an interesting juxtaposition to the situation in China. Capitalists like to point to the freeing up of the Chinese economy and seem to discount the effect of having massive industries that benefited from early protectionism.

[pErvinalia]

India?

From the preamble of the Indian Constitution - "We, the people of India, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a Sovereign Socialist Secular Democratic Republic. . . ." India's election law, the Representation of the People Act, requires every political party to aver its commitment to socialism, and political parties that attempt to register in India are denied if they don't put a commitment to socialism in their party platform.

Oh, so like how the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic? India isn't socialist. You seem to be having a Seth moment.

[Forty Two]

Yeah right, last time I heard it's Syrians trying to go to Sweden, not the reverse.

Sure, but Sweden isn't socialist. It's a capitalist economy with a vibrant private sector and free market economy. Having a social safety net doesn't make one "socialist."

I'd be willing to bet DaveDodo thinks it's socialist.

Well, then it must be socialist?

That's not the point. The point is it makes Svarty's retort to DaveDodo valid.

Except that Syria is more Socialist than Sweden ever was.

https://mises.org/library/how-modern-sw ... et-history

It is interesting that progressives like Sanders can look at a rich country like Sweden and automatically conclude that the nation’s high living standards do not result from a laissez-faire past, low levels of national debt, monetary independence, no centrally mandated minimum wage, strong legal protection of property rights, a level-headed central bank, low corporate tax rates, or even Sweden’s gradual move toward more privatization in healthcare, social security, and education. Rather, progressives naturally assume that Sweden’s high living standards are a product of their high taxes and nationalized industries.

Well that's an interesting juxtaposition to the situation in China. Capitalists like to point to the freeing up of the Chinese economy and seem to discount the effect of having massive industries that benefited from early protectionism.

China is an autocratic planned economy. People like to say they went to capitalism, but what they really did was trade Totalitarian Communism for Totalitarian Fascism. They are the epitome of Mussolini's "Corporatism" -- a marrying of the State and Corporations.

[Tyrannical]

If Europe was a democracy, all muslims would be expelled. 60% would according to the last poll I saw.

[pErvinalia]

https://mises.org/library/how-modern-sw ... et-history

It is interesting that progressives like Sanders can look at a rich country like Sweden and automatically conclude that the nation’s high living standards do not result from a laissez-faire past, low levels of national debt, monetary independence, no centrally mandated minimum wage, strong legal protection of property rights, a level-headed central bank, low corporate tax rates, or even Sweden’s gradual move toward more privatization in healthcare, social security, and education. Rather, progressives naturally assume that Sweden’s high living standards are a product of their high taxes and nationalized industries.

Well that's an interesting juxtaposition to the situation in China. Capitalists like to point to the freeing up of the Chinese economy and seem to discount the effect of having massive industries that benefited from early protectionism.

China is an autocratic planned economy. People like to say they went to capitalism, but what they really did was trade Totalitarian Communism for Totalitarian Fascism. They are the epitome of Mussolini's "Corporatism" -- a marrying of the State and Corporations.

I actually agree up to a point. But that'd make you a rare capitalist cheerleader accepting that view. In fact I've never heard a strong capitalist ever accept this before.

[pErvinalia]

If Europe was a democracy, all muslims would be expelled. 60% would according to the last poll I saw.

That's why human rights documents and constitutions are considered so valuable to the non-fascists amongst us.

[piscator]

Rights and constitutions are just made-up anyway. You can just change them if you don't like them.

[pErvinalia]

Sure. So are laws. Therefore laws are useless?

[piscator]

Most are, for me.

[pErvinalia]

Anarchy for the win!

[piscator]

I police my self pretty dam good, but that's beside the point. Most laws on the books don't pertain to me or my world so, ipso facto,.. I sometimes have to pay skilled people to be sure they don't apply.

I'm sure I derive quite a bit of aggregate good from many laws that don't pertain to me, but little personal utility. Don't get me wrong, I'm still, like, pretty positive about the whole "legal" thing. Mostly.

[JimC]

Yeah right, last time I heard it's Syrians trying to go to Sweden, not the reverse.

Sure, but Sweden isn't socialist. It's a capitalist economy with a vibrant private sector and free market economy. Having a social safety net doesn't make one "socialist."

Seth would shoot you as a traitor just for saying this...