The Secret Shame of Middle-Class Americans

[Rum]

Materialism. The misguided notion that goods can make you happy. We've pretty much all fallen for it and we are almost all disappointed by it.

[pErvinalia]

I feel sorry for people who don't have money in the first place, but not those who spend it on frivolous things rather than maintaining a basic level of savings. The difference between people now and people in the past is that these days too many piss their money away on things they don't need. I dare say the lack of forward planning among individuals mirrors the lack of forward planning by our governments.

Remember, people pissing money away (including a lot of borrowed money) is what has underpinned much of our economic growth over the last thirty years. Also remember that housing prices and rents have soared while wages haven't moved anywhere near as much.

[piscator]

I do wish people would not conflate 'class' with 'wealth'

"What are either to you?"



Consumerist Americans mortgaged to the hilt just pisses Lefties off. All that $$ that could be divvied up!
Throw in the fact that Brits in general feel entitled to spend their neighbor's money for them, and it's no wonder some Bulldogs are slobbering over this 50-year old bit of news...

[JimC]

What drives people to spend more than they need on trash they don't need? Who is to blame? Seems the advertising companies are the culprits and should be driven out of town with tar and feathers. You can't blame a population when it is manipulated by the heirs of Joseph Goebels to spend and be damned.

Agreed, but the stupid consumers also deserve contempt...

[laklak]

It's understandable that people go into heavy debt for a house, but the rest of it is bullshit. People are just way too concerned with what other people think of them, and figure the right car or clothes or cell phone makes a difference. Unfortunately, to the sort of folks they're attempting to impress, it does. They've ALL drunk the Kool-Aid.

I'm finding a lot of kindred spirits among the Trawler Trash crowd we're hanging out with these days. Mostly my age and up, retired, competent enough to maintain an old boat, independent, and completely unconcerned with what the landlubbers in their Corvettes and Polo shirts think about them. Straight forward folks, very helpful, friendly, and ready to lend a hand whenever needed. I highly recommend the sub-culture. OTOH there's a whole other bunch, with the big new boats, yacht clubers. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Then there's the worst of the worst, the gold chain Miami types in their massive ocean speedboats. A bigger bunch of utter assholes would be hard to imagine.

[mistermack]

Then there's the worst of the worst, the gold chain Miami types in their massive ocean speedboats. A bigger bunch of utter assholes would be hard to imagine.

Reminds me of the movie "Caddy Shack".
One of the few movies that I could actually watch and enjoy.

[pErvinalia]

I do wish people would not conflate 'class' with 'wealth'

"What are either to you?"



Consumerist Americans mortgaged to the hilt just pisses Lefties off. All that $$ that could be divvied up!

Bullshit. It's not $$. It's DEBT!

Throw in the fact that Brits in general feel entitled to spend their neighbor's money for them, and it's no wonder some Bulldogs are slobbering over this 50-year old bit of news...

Bullshit. The levels of personal debt are at historic highs. By a BIG margin.

[pErvinalia]

It's understandable that people go into heavy debt for a house, but the rest of it is bullshit. People are just way too concerned with what other people think of them, and figure the right car or clothes or cell phone makes a difference. Unfortunately, to the sort of folks they're attempting to impress, it does. They've ALL drunk the Kool-Aid.

I'm finding a lot of kindred spirits among the Trawler Trash crowd we're hanging out with these days. Mostly my age and up, retired, competent enough to maintain an old boat, independent, and completely unconcerned with what the landlubbers in their Corvettes and Polo shirts think about them. Straight forward folks, very helpful, friendly, and ready to lend a hand whenever needed. I highly recommend the sub-culture. OTOH there's a whole other bunch, with the big new boats, yacht clubers. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Then there's the worst of the worst, the gold chain Miami types in their massive ocean speedboats. A bigger bunch of utter assholes would be hard to imagine.

Ditching consumerism was the greatest thing I ever did. The sense of freedom is incredible. Problem is, when I support cuts to middle-class welfare because I think a lot of middle class people could spend less on giant houses and big tvs and second cars and jetskis and pools etc, I get hell from the middle class. Even stranger is the attack I got from a well known Australia socialist journalist who ranted to me about class awareness and all sorts of shit to support middle class welfare. I don't think Marx had it in mind to support well off people at the expense of the less well off.

[laklak]

Tune in, turn on, sail away, that's my new motto. Gotta start the liquidation plan, I want completely out of the rat race by 65, so 3 years left. I better get busy.

[cronus]

When half the population is living on a financial knife-edge....you can see what is gonna happen, sooner or later? A boat isn't a luxury it is a necessity in that situation.

[pErvinalia]

Australian ABC did a report on our housing market the other night. It's got a distinct smell of sub-prime about it. If it crashes hard instead of softly re-correcting, it's going to smash the middle class here. Basically, it will be our GFC for the middle class that the rest of the world experienced but we got through without much of a hit.

[mistermack]

Australian ABC did a report on our housing market the other night. It's got a distinct smell of sub-prime about it. If it crashes hard instead of softly re-correcting, it's going to smash the middle class here. Basically, it will be our GFC for the middle class that the rest of the world experienced but we got through without much of a hit.

I don't get Australia having house price inflation.
Over here, it's lack of suitable land that's the problem. They can build houses for a tiny fraction of the sale price. But the plot is what's worth all the money.

Land would surely be far cheaper in OZ? Maybe the governments are deliberately keeping house prices up? They do here. Each government keeps propping the housing market, with schemes to help buyers, and importing 300,000 plus immigrants each year, to keep stoking demand for housing.
Without these measures, there would be an almighty crash. But each successive govt. so far has managed to put that off. Hoping that the crash will happen when the other parties are in power.

[JimC]

Australian ABC did a report on our housing market the other night. It's got a distinct smell of sub-prime about it. If it crashes hard instead of softly re-correcting, it's going to smash the middle class here. Basically, it will be our GFC for the middle class that the rest of the world experienced but we got through without much of a hit.

I don't get Australia having house price inflation.
Over here, it's lack of suitable land that's the problem. They can build houses for a tiny fraction of the sale price. But the plot is what's worth all the money.

Land would surely be far cheaper in OZ? Maybe the governments are deliberately keeping house prices up? They do here. Each government keeps propping the housing market, with schemes to help buyers, and importing 300,000 plus immigrants each year, to keep stoking demand for housing.
Without these measures, there would be an almighty crash. But each successive govt. so far has managed to put that off. Hoping that the crash will happen when the other parties are in power.

It's basically only in Melbourne and Sydney, in particular the inner and middle suburbs. We may be a big country, but the majority live in urban conclaves...

[pErvinalia]

Australian ABC did a report on our housing market the other night. It's got a distinct smell of sub-prime about it. If it crashes hard instead of softly re-correcting, it's going to smash the middle class here. Basically, it will be our GFC for the middle class that the rest of the world experienced but we got through without much of a hit.

I don't get Australia having house price inflation.
Over here, it's lack of suitable land that's the problem. They can build houses for a tiny fraction of the sale price. But the plot is what's worth all the money.

Land would surely be far cheaper in OZ? Maybe the governments are deliberately keeping house prices up? They do here. Each government keeps propping the housing market, with schemes to help buyers, and importing 300,000 plus immigrants each year, to keep stoking demand for housing.
Without these measures, there would be an almighty crash. But each successive govt. so far has managed to put that off. Hoping that the crash will happen when the other parties are in power.

There's a couple of reason here for the boom. First is local and state government's restricting land releases so that they can benefit from higher taxes collected from council rates and land sales. The next big factor is our very generous investment rules regarding private housing. I couldn't be bothered going into it (it's called "negative gearing" and there's also a 50% discount on capital gains tax), but it's led to a situation where many investment units are now not even rented out, as it's cheaper and easier to leave them clean and empty for selling down the track. The other contributing factor appears to be dodgy lending practice (like the sub-prime hooha in the US) which are lending huge sums of money to people who have no capacity to pay it back if interest rates go up (which they eventually will, as they are at record low now).

edit: I should add, the mining boom, and the boom in China (leading to heaps of Chinese investors here) have given people the temporary means to access heaps of debt.

[pErvinalia]

Australian ABC did a report on our housing market the other night. It's got a distinct smell of sub-prime about it. If it crashes hard instead of softly re-correcting, it's going to smash the middle class here. Basically, it will be our GFC for the middle class that the rest of the world experienced but we got through without much of a hit.

I don't get Australia having house price inflation.
Over here, it's lack of suitable land that's the problem. They can build houses for a tiny fraction of the sale price. But the plot is what's worth all the money.

Land would surely be far cheaper in OZ? Maybe the governments are deliberately keeping house prices up? They do here. Each government keeps propping the housing market, with schemes to help buyers, and importing 300,000 plus immigrants each year, to keep stoking demand for housing.
Without these measures, there would be an almighty crash. But each successive govt. so far has managed to put that off. Hoping that the crash will happen when the other parties are in power.

It's basically only in Melbourne and Sydney, in particular the inner and middle suburbs.

That's the current iteration of the boom. But Brisbane and Perth boomed before Melbourne and Sydney. Perth has levelled out, but Brisbane still increased 7% last year.

But yeah, the craziest place is Sydney now. Some places are at 30x yearly pre-tax wages to buy a house. One suburb, Point Piper has a MEDIAN house price of $14 million!