Universal Basic Income thread

[NineBerry]

People die from the effects of burning coal. And coal miners die. Not only from accidents in coal mines but they also have a drastically reduced life expectation compared to other people.

The cost of coal ignores both costs: The costs from damages done to the environment and the real cost for miners. If energy produced from coal becomes too expensive because you assume the REAL costs, other forms of energy (re-newables for example) become more attractive and get a push.

[Forty Two]

That's a nice concept, but you'll have to show the numbers. it's also possible that so-called renewables will become more expensive too, because as demand shifts from coal to renewables, the price goes up. Supply and demand does that.

It's a feature folks ignore when talking about energy a lot. For example, when it comes to electric cars, they say look how cheap electricity is. If only we could just plug our cars into the wall socket and power up that way, we'd save so much money. They don't take into account what happens when demand for electricity increases by 10, 20 or 30 million cars powering up every night.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm just saying it's not as simple as -- increase the price of coal, renewables become a cheaper option. That may be true, or it may not. And, the price at which supply/demand equilibrium settles after demand shifts significantly from coal to other sources is anybody's guess. There is eventually a price where people won't be able to pay it, and will disconnect their power. It sounds unthinkable, because we all grew up with power. But, if you raise the average person's cost of electricity from $100 a month to $300 a month, that is going to cause real people some difficulty, and kill some.

Like the price of gas -- some people say - jack up the price of gas and people will switch to mass transiit! Indeed, that is true, but if you add 50 million people to the mass transit system, the infrastructure is not necessarily ready, the demand goes up, and that puts upward pressure on price. Even where the government controls the mass transit, when demand goes up markedly, they either have to expand supply or raise prices. Both of these have many different costs.

So, I agree in principle, but we haven't reached a conclusion.

[Tyrannical]

I'm actually for supporting a higher minimum wage, because without that the government is giving corporations welfare by subsidizing their employee salaries by giving their employees welfare to lift them to a living wage.
The best way to do that is to lower the employment pool by by forcing all non whites to leave white countries. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the darkies would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of non whites dragging us down. Even the non white countries would benefit as their best and brightest would move back.

[NineBerry]

Could instead just force all racists to leave the country. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the assholes would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of fascist arseheads dragging us down.

[Tyrannical]

Could instead just force all racists to leave the country. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the assholes would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of fascist arseheads dragging us down.

I had no idea Robert Mugabe was a member

[Svartalf]

Could instead just force all racists to leave the country. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the assholes would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of fascist arseheads dragging us down.

starting with clannish Jews and misintegrated foreigners?

[JimC]

I've never heard anyone on the left support it (as cheap labour).

Certainly not for that reason, but they do in general support immigration, often automatically because right-wing racists oppose it. There is some conflict inherent here - the trade union movement of a given country will oppose importing overseas workers, for example...

[Tyrannical]

I've never heard anyone on the left support it (as cheap labour).

Certainly not for that reason, but they do in general support immigration, often automatically because right-wing racists oppose it. There is some conflict inherent here - the trade union movement of a given country will oppose importing overseas workers, for example...

Certainly yes for that reason. It's not in the news article, but in the comments.

[pErvinalia]

Could instead just force all racists to leave the country. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the assholes would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of fascist arseheads dragging us down.

IQ would be up too!

[pErvinalia]

I've never heard anyone on the left support it (as cheap labour).

Certainly not for that reason, but they do in general support immigration,...

Yeah, but that's not the claim being made.

[Brian Peacock]

Could instead just force all racists to leave the country. Crime would plumnet, cities would be safer, welfare and education costs would fall, corruption that panders to the assholes would vanish. We'd enter a new utopian age of plenty without the yoke of fascist arseheads dragging us down.

I had no idea Robert Mugabe was a member

Give it a rest. The colour of you skin is no more of a character trait than the colour of you hair or the length of you thigh bone. You might as well be talking about midget gingers for all the sense you're making.

[pErvinalia]

Don't get me started on midget gingers..

[Brian Peacock]

Basically flawed

Proponents of a basic income underestimate how disruptive it would be

WORK is one of society’s most important institutions. It is the main mechanism through which spending power is allocated. It provides people with meaning, structure and identity. Yet work is a less generous, and less certain, provider of these benefits than it once was. Since 2000 economic growth across the rich world has failed to generate decent pay increases for most workers. Now there is growing fear of a more fundamental threat to the world of work: the possibility that new technologies, from machine learning to driverless cars, will cause havoc to employment.

Such worries have revived interest in an old idea: the payment of a “universal basic income”, an unconditional government payment given to all citizens, as a supplement to or replacement for wages (see article). On June 5th Swiss citizens will decide in a referendum whether to require their government to adopt a basic income. Finland and the Netherlands are planning limited experiments in which some citizens are paid a monthly income of roughly €1,000 ($1,100). People from all points on the ideological spectrum, from trade unionists to libertarians, are supporters. It is an idea whose day may come. But not soon...

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... lly-flawed

[pErvinalia]

Swiss voters overwhelmingly reject proposal to introduce basic income

[Svartalf]

the Swiss are crazy, refuse free money if the country can afford it... fragging calvinists.