Earth is Probably Unique

[mistermack]

It seemed a duff argument right from the start, to me.
The fatal flaw is that you can't have an ACTUAL infinity, but a theoretical infinity, and a theoretical zero, is no problem whatsoever.
The lead of the tortoise goes to infinitely small (zero) in an infinite number of intervals, and then goes into the negative. All perfectly possible, as the intervals are imaginary, not real.
In the real world, once you get down to the plank length lead, you wouldn't be able to go any lower, and the next jump would see Achilles past the tortoise.

[pErvinalia]

Read a fun article the other day about a thing called "Graham's Number". It's a spectacularly large number. That alone isn't particularly amazing as it's pretty easy to write a spectacularly large number using exponents. But it was a process to take exponents to another level of abstraction and someone came up with a notation of how to write these numbers. Worth a read.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/11/1000000-g ... umber.html

[JimC]

Very interesting article, rEv!

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I enjoy his stuff. He's got some really interesting articles on there. I just read one on cryonics the other day. Fascinating article.

[Svartalf]

The calculus of infinitesimals sorts it all out...

at that level, it turns into quantum physics

[mistermack]

On Horizon a couple of hours ago, they did a program on the possibility of life on other worlds.
They only touched on our own solar system.
In one bit they were talking about the possibility of a totally different life-form, on one of the moons of Jupiter I think.
It has lakes of liquid methane, and they are speculating that a form of life based on liquid methane could exist, digesting hydrogen. It's obviously not impossible, in their minds. They are designing a submarine of about one ton weight, to go there, land on one of the lakes, float around for a while, and then descend to the bottom, taking photos all the time, and sampling the environment. Ambitious or what !!

I wish them all the best. I have my doubts about the life possibility though.
The organic compounds are there. But the big thing about our own life form is that we reproduce, but not perfectly. The occasional mistake in copying dna is as important for life as the dna itself. Because if the mutations don't happen, you would just find the original reproducing chemicals, which would hardly qualify as life at all.
And if the mutations are too drastic, and too numerous, then life wouldn't be able to hang onto beneficial modifications.
So the balance of almost perfect copying, but not quite, is the only one that would show up as any kind of recognisable life.
What are the chances that another kind of organics would replicate that setup?
It cuts down the chances drastically.

[rainbow]

On Horizon a couple of hours ago, they did a program on the possibility of life on other worlds.
They only touched on our own solar system.
In one bit they were talking about the possibility of a totally different life-form, on one of the moons of Jupiter I think.
It has lakes of liquid methane, and they are speculating that a form of life based on liquid methane could exist, digesting hydrogen. It's obviously not impossible, in their minds. They are designing a submarine of about one ton weight, to go there, land on one of the lakes, float around for a while, and then descend to the bottom, taking photos all the time, and sampling the environment. Ambitious or what !!

I wish them all the best. I have my doubts about the life possibility though.
The organic compounds are there. But the big thing about our own life form is that we reproduce, but not perfectly. The occasional mistake in copying dna is as important for life as the dna itself. Because if the mutations don't happen, you would just find the original reproducing chemicals, which would hardly qualify as life at all.
And if the mutations are too drastic, and too numerous, then life wouldn't be able to hang onto beneficial modifications.
So the balance of almost perfect copying, but not quite, is the only one that would show up as any kind of recognisable life.
What are the chances that another kind of organics would replicate that setup?

Very good.

It cuts down the chances drastically.

No, it doesn't.

[mistermack]

It cuts down the chances drastically.

No, it doesn't.

Does.

[Rum]

Flip a coin. We are either unique, rare or common. Nobody actually knows.

[JimC]

Common as muck, I reckon...

[mistermack]

Common as muck, I reckon...

I resemble that remark.

I don't hold much hope for them finding a new form of life in a lake of liquid methane at minus 250 degrees or so though. You wouldn't think that chemistry of any sort would be doing much in those conditions.
But, they must know something that I don't, to be sending a one-ton sub to find out. That must be costing a few quid.

[pErvinalia]

It's yet another scientific conspiracy MM. You know more than the scientists. Don't ever let them tell you otherwise, sister!

[mistermack]

It's yet another scientific conspiracy MM. You know more than the scientists. Don't ever let them tell you otherwise, sister!

You really do like to wallow in your ignorance sometimes. Rather than bothering with any facts.
Some scientists will undoubtedly speculate on the possibility of methane-based life on the moon in question. Others will be sceptical. That's what proper science is like, when they simply don't know.
Real scientists might favour one version, or another, but what they don't do is discount possibilities, just because there's a "consensus".

That's not science, it's activism.
And it's fucking stupid.

[pErvinalia]

And a conspiracy!

[Forty Two]

Flip a coin. We are either unique, rare or common. Nobody actually knows.

How many sides do you blokes have on coins over there?