Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by rainbow » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:15 pm

MrJonno wrote:
Hermit wrote:
MrJonno wrote:...its certainly very elitish to even join a political party
You confuse two words.

elite: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.
minority: the smaller number or part, especially a number or part representing less than half of the whole.

Well people who do join political parties do think they are better than everyone else, but not as much as people who go on demonstrations in a a democracy do.
Been outvoted in an election, hey lets have a street demonstration/riot/party because we don't like the results. of an election Let's face it people only take to the streets in a democracy because they have already lost the argument
:ask: What do elections have to do with democracy?
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:32 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Hermit wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Bigotry against disadvantaged people. And you clearly missed DDs link to SDs disgusting rape apologetics. Go back and find it.
Bigotry has a cornucopia of meanings, but the chief one is "intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself." I don't see it. And no, I will not accept "read the thread" as evidence. That's too close to "find it your fucking self because I can't be bothered", which is pretty much all you and Surr have been doing so far. Give me some relevant quotes, thanks.
I would even add that I can't for the life of me figure out why bigotry would be considered an offense on a discussion board. So what if person X is intolerant of people who hold different opinions? As long as person X is not namecalling or personally attacking other people, and not derailing conversations or posting off topic material, then what in the world does "intolerance" have to do with anything?

A lot of people are intolerant of pedophiles, for example, or those who defend pedophilia. So what? Can't there still be a thread about pedophilia, where people can talk about it? Some of those people are just going to declare pedophilia to be indefensible and pedophiles to be monsters. They're bigoted against pedophiles.

Similarly, if someone is bigoted against "disadvantaged people," that doesn't actually effect the conversation. What if someone just doesn't tolerate trans people. Some feminists, for example, are bigoted against trans people. As long as they aren't namecalling and such, then what is the problem with them expressing their opinion?

Lastly, this trend to suggest that being bigoted against certain groups of people is forbidden, but being bigoted against other groups of people is o.k., is just a recipe for conversational disaster. There are many different opinions as to who is disadvantaged and why, and who is marginalized, and who is privileged, and who is advantages, and all that. Nobody agrees on it. Nor should it matter. Being a woman or a minority, for example, doesn't immunize one from criticism or argument.
Precisely correct. "Bigotry" as strictly defined is morally and ethically neutral because it is the intent of the bigotry that lends it either moral value or social opprobrium.

It's perfectly rational and reasonable for a person to express bigotry against those who deserve to be reviled, as you state.

rEv, for example, expresses pretty much universal bigotry against "the rich" and "big corporations" and his reasons for doing so are, although deeply ignorant and misguided, his opinions about the way he thinks society ought to operate. There is nothing inherently opprobrious about such bigotry, but it does tend to cause others to likewise express bigotry towards his expressions of bigotry.

The connotation is, of course, that nobody should be a bigot and everybody should be tolerant towards all others, regardless of their actions. This of course is a Neo-Marxist bit of doublespeak these days because what Marxists and Progressives really mean is that Marxists and Progressives have not just a right, but a duty to mankind to be bigots against capitalism and capitalists but no one is allowed to call their bigotry what it is, nor is anyone permitted to express bigotry against Marxists or Progressives because it is forbidden for anyone to question, much less be intolerant of Marxism or Progressivism.

But bigotry, like discrimination, is a fundamental civil right in any free society.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by Hermit » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:30 pm

MrJonno wrote:Well people who do join political parties do think they are better than everyone else
People join the party they think represents their views better and because they want to help attain that party's aims. The notion of 'elite' doesn't enter into it. A very few of them climb up the party hierarchy. If they become part of the party's leadership they can be said to have joined the party's elite. Considering that there are almost 700,000 people in the UK with party membership, it becomes obvious that most of them are not part of an elite. They are only doing what they think is right. You may call them arrogant for presuming to know better than others if you like, but elitism is far off the mark.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:39 am

MrJonno wrote:
Hermit wrote:
MrJonno wrote:...its certainly very elitish to even join a political party
You confuse two words.

elite: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.
minority: the smaller number or part, especially a number or part representing less than half of the whole.

Well people who do join political parties do think they are better than everyone else, ..
Evidence for this arse gravy?
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by laklak » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:13 am

I wouldn't join a political party that would have me as a member.

Somebody had to say it.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:50 am

I would join a member who had lak at a party.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by JimC » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:51 am

Brian Peacock wrote:I would join a member who had lak at a party.
A party for lak's member?
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:52 am

Yeah, let's give it a good send off.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by DaveDodo007 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:54 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:Remember that we are supposed to be wiping the slate clean and putting all of the bullshit behind us so
we can have more productive discourse but that can only work if all of us agree to it not just some of us
Take it up with the folk who think that a few off-colour jokes from three years ago is wholesale evidence that I am some Internet horror!

I can have productive discourse with anyone who is willing to be civil, clean slate or no.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by DaveDodo007 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:07 am

Seth wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:Remember that we are supposed to be wiping the slate clean and putting all of the bullshit behind us so
we can have more productive discourse but that can only work if all of us agree to it not just some of us
Well, it ain't the New Year just yet, so perhaps we can forgive a couple of "final shots" before the armistice.
Fuck that as there will be no armistice. I will not be happy until the lefty/liberal cunt's skulls are crushed into the earth and the very soil which they walked on is salted. There can be no negotiation or compromise when freedom and liberty are at stake.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by DaveDodo007 » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:23 am

rEvolutionist wrote:Well a number of the naysayers were proved conclusively wrong by suggesting he couldn't win the Labor leadership. Let's just wait and see what happens in the next election before getting too cocky. Most of his policies align with the majority of public expectations. It's really only the elite who are contemptuous of him.
But your honour I present Michael Foot, Jesus Christ the UK voted for the monster that was Margaret Thatcher rather than vote for an extremist Labour candidate. The UK is a centre right country so labour has a Blairite (non war monger) leader or get recked.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:28 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Well a number of the naysayers were proved conclusively wrong by suggesting he couldn't win the Labor leadership. Let's just wait and see what happens in the next election before getting too cocky. Most of his policies align with the majority of public expectations. It's really only the elite who are contemptuous of him.
But your honour I present Michael Foot, Jesus Christ the UK voted for the monster that was Margaret Thatcher rather than vote for an extremist Labour candidate. The UK is a centre right country so labour has a Blairite (non war monger) leader or get recked.
Some truth in this, from what I gather...
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:17 am

DaveDodo007 wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Well a number of the naysayers were proved conclusively wrong by suggesting he couldn't win the Labor leadership. Let's just wait and see what happens in the next election before getting too cocky. Most of his policies align with the majority of public expectations. It's really only the elite who are contemptuous of him.
But your honour I present Michael Foot, Jesus Christ the UK voted for the monster that was Margaret Thatcher rather than vote for an extremist Labour candidate. The UK is a centre right country so labour has a Blairite (non war monger) leader or get recked.
Let's wait and see. I'm not convinced.
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by JimC » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:41 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
DaveDodo007 wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Well a number of the naysayers were proved conclusively wrong by suggesting he couldn't win the Labor leadership. Let's just wait and see what happens in the next election before getting too cocky. Most of his policies align with the majority of public expectations. It's really only the elite who are contemptuous of him.
But your honour I present Michael Foot, Jesus Christ the UK voted for the monster that was Margaret Thatcher rather than vote for an extremist Labour candidate. The UK is a centre right country so labour has a Blairite (non war monger) leader or get recked.
Let's wait and see. I'm not convinced.
The proof will be in the next UK election, agreed.

A contrast in Oz; we have a dodgy labour apparatchik as opposition leader, with no real convictions, and a conservative leader with popular appeal. We're screwed...
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Re: Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:12 am

More Labor votes will shift to the Greens (before coming right back under our ridiculous compulsory preferencing system).
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