Turkey shoots down Russian jet fighter

[Jason]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. Looking up details is such tedium

Hardly gonna prove much around here. Why bother? The purpose of this forum is pure entertainment and fault me if I'm wrong that doesn't require facts?

Well then, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to engage the forum in an ersatz performance of Midsummer Night's dream and set the mood with a charming Bourree - one of Bach's I think. Don't worry about playing your parts well, this is a post-modern production and very little art will be required. Very dogs playing poker recast in pigsty muck with a great big sow birthing 4 piglets replete with bloody cards. I think it will sell on Broadway.

[cronus]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. Looking up details is such tedium

Hardly gonna prove much around here. Why bother? The purpose of this forum is pure entertainment and fault me if I'm wrong that doesn't require facts?

Well then, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to engage the forum in an ersatz performance of Midsummer Night's dream and set the mood with a charming Bourree - one of Bach's I think. Don't worry about playing your parts well, this is a post-modern production and very little art will be required. Very dogs playing poker recast in pigsty muck with a great big sow birthing 4 piglets replete with bloody cards. I think it will sell on Broadway.

Post-modernist output requires effort. No fun in the hipster movement. It's all hard work...stuff that for a living. Steve Jobs got his mega-yacht, finished six months after he died.

[cronus]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. Looking up details is such tedium

Hardly gonna prove much around here. Why bother? The purpose of this forum is pure entertainment and fault me if I'm wrong that doesn't require facts?

Well then, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to engage the forum in an ersatz performance of Midsummer Night's dream and set the mood with a charming Bourree - one of Bach's I think. Don't worry about playing your parts well, this is a post-modern production and very little art will be required. Very dogs playing poker recast in pigsty muck with a great big sow birthing 4 piglets replete with bloody cards. I think it will sell on Broadway.

Post-modernist output requires effort. No fun in the hipster movement. It's all hard work...stuff that for a living. Steve Jobs got his mega-yacht, finished six months after he died.

[mistermack]

From looking at the map, the salient was indeed long and narrow. If the Russian pilots were pushing the edge in terms of going close to the border, then it is fairly likely they passed over it. As I said, this means that Turkey was technically within its rights to shoot down the plane, however unwise it may have been. But I agree that the political motivations of all players in this drama are very murky indeed...

Yes, I've seen the map, and thought the same. But of course, it depends on the orders that the pilots were given. There were previous claims from Turkey that Russian planes had strayed over the border, which Russia denied. And Turkey were threatening to shoot one down, if it happened again.
So either the Russians were incredibly stupid, and didn't give the pilots orders never to stray, or the Turks were laying the ground for a plan to shoot one down if it came close enough to the border.

My own gut feeling is that this is what happened, and the Russians were playing chicken going right up to the border.

Either way, it's perfectly clear from the map, that the Turks are lying about all of the warnings.
There wouldn't have been time, if the bomber had just flown over that narrow strip.
So if the Turks are lying about the warnings, they are probably lying about the location.
But I still make it fifty fifty odds who's lying.

As far as the capabilities of the jets goes, it ought to be easy for a fighter to shoot down a bomber. Especially if the bomber has no idea you are going to shoot.
It's easy to shoot anyone, with anything, if they don't know you're aiming at them and about to pull the trigger.

[Jason]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. Looking up details is such tedium

Hardly gonna prove much around here. Why bother? The purpose of this forum is pure entertainment and fault me if I'm wrong that doesn't require facts?

Well then, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to engage the forum in an ersatz performance of Midsummer Night's dream and set the mood with a charming Bourree - one of Bach's I think. Don't worry about playing your parts well, this is a post-modern production and very little art will be required. Very dogs playing poker recast in pigsty muck with a great big sow birthing 4 piglets replete with bloody cards. I think it will sell on Broadway.

Post-modernist output requires effort. No fun in the hipster movement. It's all hard work...stuff that for a living. Steve Jobs got his mega-yacht, finished six months after he died.

I think I might love you man.That;s a proposition fraught with danger.

[Hermit]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. I've flown them.

What flight simulator program were you using, and would you recommend it? Asking because I'm looking around for one.

[Jason]

DCS World is quite good. Clickable xockpits and all that fot many modules.. sorry for my typing but i've spilled madeira on my keyboard and have been reduced to using windows on-screen keyboard fot the next 2 hours until the shop opens

[Hermit]

Better be a keyboard for your desktop. I spilt some wine on my laptop keyboard a few weeks ago. That cost me 217 dollars to fix.

[Jason]

It was. A logitech G710.. about $140 CAD with taxes at the local shop.. but it's worth it to be able to type with LED backlight.

[Seth]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. I've flown them.

What flight simulator program were you using, and would you recommend it? Asking because I'm looking around for one.

X-Plane 10. Without question.

[mistermack]

It was. A logitech G710.. about $140 CAD with taxes at the local shop.. but it's worth it to be able to type with LED backlight.

I always wrap my keyboard in very thin polythene using sticky tape. I can still feel the keys just the same and see them if I have to. I actually do it to keep dust out, but you never know with drinks around.

I did once dry one out, but it took absolutely ages and was never worth it.
I did dry out a laptop belonging to my nephew a few years ago. It thought it hadn't worked, and then suddenly popped back into life and worked from then on without a problem.
Best avoided though.

[Jason]

Su-25 frogfoot ground attack aircraft I presume. I've flown them.

What flight simulator program were you using, and would you recommend it? Asking because I'm looking around for one.

X-Plane 10. Without question.

Pure flight sims are boring.. I'm a combat pilot.

[klr]

From looking at the map, the salient was indeed long and narrow. If the Russian pilots were pushing the edge in terms of going close to the border, then it is fairly likely they passed over it. As I said, this means that Turkey was technically within its rights to shoot down the plane, however unwise it may have been. But I agree that the political motivations of all players in this drama are very murky indeed...

Yes, I've seen the map, and thought the same. But of course, it depends on the orders that the pilots were given. There were previous claims from Turkey that Russian planes had strayed over the border, which Russia denied. And Turkey were threatening to shoot one down, if it happened again.
So either the Russians were incredibly stupid, and didn't give the pilots orders never to stray, or the Turks were laying the ground for a plan to shoot one down if it came close enough to the border.

My own gut feeling is that this is what happened, and the Russians were playing chicken going right up to the border.

Either way, it's perfectly clear from the map, that the Turks are lying about all of the warnings.
There wouldn't have been time, if the bomber had just flown over that narrow strip.
So if the Turks are lying about the warnings, they are probably lying about the location.
But I still make it fifty fifty odds who's lying.

As far as the capabilities of the jets goes, it ought to be easy for a fighter to shoot down a bomber. Especially if the bomber has no idea you are going to shoot.
It's easy to shoot anyone, with anything, if they don't know you're aiming at them and about to pull the trigger.

17 seconds according to the BBC. I calculated the Russian jet was travelling at about 390 km/h during the transit. But ... you're entitled to give warnings as someone approaches your borders, be it by land, sea or air, which is exactly what the Turks said they did. It happens all time.

However, I agree that the Russians were probably playing chicken, by repeatedly skirting around and sometimes over the border. That Turkish salient is probably beneath a prime bombing run against a key target. In other circumstances, Turkey might have agreed to look the other way, as long it wasn't too blatant. But not with the Russians attacking their ethnic cousins.

... and now the Russians have suddenly "realised" that 15% of their Turkish food imports don't meet quality requirements. Of course, they were fine last week.

[Galaxian]

This clown erDOGan & crazed sidekick Davutoglu have made a huge mistake. His intention is clear as is his irrationality & psychopathy.
He wants to restart the Caliphate with Istanbul & himself as its head.
He has stolen hundreds of billions of $$$ from Iraq & Syria and wants to keep on doing so: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/28 ... wed-1-5tn/
He wants to be loved by his imagined western buddies: He's applied constantly to be an EU member, hence his dumb membership of NATO.
He wants to be feared by Turkish citizens: He's gutted the Turkish military of hundreds of senior officers.
He has mediocre intelligence, & what little he has is over ridden by his psychosis: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... shortening
On this last point; this fool constantly invades other nations' air space with military planes. Hundreds of times a year into Greek, Lebanese, and Syrian air space: http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccart ... fographic/
His time is up. He'll be taken out either by his own police/army or by a foreign hit squad. One less dickhead to contend with!

[cronus]

This clown erDOGan has made a huge mistake. His intention is clear as is his irrationality & psychopathy.
He wants to restart the Caliphate with Istanbul & himself as its head.
He has stolen hundreds of billions of $$$ from Iraq & Syria and wants to keep on doing so: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/28 ... wed-1-5tn/
He wants to be loved by his imagined western buddies: He's applied constantly to be an EU member, hence his dumb membership of NATO.
He wants to be feared by Turkish citizens: He's gutted the Turkish military of hundreds of senior officers.
He has mediocre intelligence, & what little he has is over ridden by his psychosis: http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... shortening
On this last point; this fool constantly invades other nations' air space with military planes. Hundreds of times a year into Greek, Lebanese, and Syrian air space.
His time is up. He'll be taken out either by his own police/army or by a foreign hit squad. One less dickhead to contend with!

ISIS isn't a problem, they are a symptom. Turkey is destabilising the region. Again.